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cut sons hair

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Category: Long Hair Happenings
Forum Name: Long Hair Support
Forum Description: Growing it long takes commitment and support.
URL: /forum_posts.php?TID=805
Printed Date: Dec 26, 2024 at 9:34am

Topic: cut sons hair

Posted By: cadensmama2002
Subject: cut sons hair
Date Posted: Oct 10, 2003 at 1:00am

hello to all...as some of u may remember i was curious as to how long is too long for a toddler's(17mo old boy) hair...well the decision was made for me, one of the family members(who shall remain nameless) took caden to the mall and cut his hair:( i was just so angry i could not speak!!!
the only good thing is she saved the hair 4 me (it was his 1st haircut) it is still kinda long for a boy and as much as i hate to admit it , i like it.....but i really LOVED his long locks...i feel so cheated..am i overreacting? it will grow back i know ...BUT I AM STILL SEETHING....does anyone have any words of enlightenment?

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Replies: 99

Posted By: cadensmama2002
Date Posted: Oct 10, 2003 at 1:00am

Posted By: Jenna
Date Posted: Oct 10, 2003 at 2:01am

That is completely out of line! I'm sure you realize this though, so it might not be helping anything. I think you have every right to feel upset.

The good news is that it will grow back before you know it, and now you get a chance to see what he looks like with short hair. He's your baby so I know you'll love him no matter what he looks like.

Posted By: duke
Date Posted: Oct 10, 2003 at 4:52am

!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

I'm speechless.

Something worse happened to my
mother. When she was like 3 yrs
old, her aunt pierced her ears!

Posted By: duke
Date Posted: Oct 10, 2003 at 4:53am

Please tell us, did Caden have any
comment? I hope he wasn't forced.
How does he feel about it?

Posted By: JerkyFlea
Date Posted: Oct 10, 2003 at 7:57am

d`"$ 4`$( a d

His comments? How did he feel? He is 17 months old. Hair isn't his top priority right now. He'd be more concerned about being around people he didn't know that having a stylish 'do.

JF0 - Aa badu`d ,%.4b` 4,b !4% !,$ $-- %! ,` /

Posted By: Debbie
Date Posted: Oct 10, 2003 at 8:35am

That happened to me one time! My daughter was about 2 and my mother in law decided she needed her bangs "trimmed". They ended up micro bangs! I was FURIOUS! Needless to say she NEVER got another chance to cut any of my childrens hair again. So, yes I DO know how you are feeling right now! My heart goes out to you! Debbie % ic adp` - ,(b` $( b !( ,,,--% -,--,Bb '$

Posted By: enfys
Date Posted: Oct 10, 2003 at 10:04am

How can someone do that? That is so mean. I don't suppose that he's old enough to have an opinion, but what about you? That is so sneaky and decietful, doing that without asking you. Saving the hair for you is like rubbing your face in what they did. $- P cn`dp0% 00BB .(4`p /.%%%,-)! !!%,!,`" !,

Posted By: Benji the Sausage
Date Posted: Oct 10, 2003 at 12:04pm

thats terrible.

i would be so angry.

it reminds me of my mom who had a friend who had a young daughter (maybe 5 or 4) and they hired a babysitter who, while they were gone, decide to cut the girls hair.

actually ive heard things like that from a lot of people. about babysitters doing stupid things.

but your own FAMILY? thats. not right.-@ifda$A`e )! ,`p 2$`p $ (! %!%$), ,! "b)(

Posted By: uzma
Date Posted: Oct 10, 2003 at 3:16pm

As your son is presently unable to express his preference for his hair length, it is your decision as a parent that has to be adhered to.

That someone other than a childs parents have made and implemented their own decision regarding his bodily part is out of order.

If I was his mother, I would take measures to prevent this ever happening again.
I would forbid it in the strongest terms and if there was a danger that despite my instruction, it would happen again, I would not leave my son alone in the care of that person.

When Caden is able to communicate his preference then no one elses decision or opinion will matter.
Until that time - everyone other than Mum and Dad has to be told.."Hands Off".

This is a case of disrespectful behaviour, no matter how trivial others may make it out to be. ), R '. `p %

Posted By: Rod
Date Posted: Oct 10, 2003 at 3:56pm

These things happen, especially with grandparents. They are wonderful substitute caregivers who can give you a break from parenting, but they have their own ideas of parenting. While they may present these ideas in an arrogant way, that they know better, they aren't always bad ideas.

And people won't follow your instructions. You tell grandma he isn't supposed to have any candy and she takes him to get candy. You want him to earn a new toy with chores and she buys the toy. Outrage isn't the best emotion, because she means well. Just discuss it. Explain where you're coming from.

As for Caden, don't worry about him. He isn't aware of how long his hair is. Everything is just what's in front of him. He's at the stage where he wants the ball, so he says, "ball" or "puppy." His attention span doesn't last. He's even too young to be afraid of strangers. That won't happen for a year.

What concerns me is that you have fixated on what you want. You want his hair long, so it's long. That's a fine decision for your own hair, but may not be best for him. He isn't old enough to make his own choice, and I hope when he is, you'll let him do that.

When he gets a little older, say 3 or 4, he'll be socializing. What you don't want is for him to be different than the other kids. For them to have a reason to tease or ostracize him. Or for the parents to be saying something that gives their kids an impression. Individuality is great and should be encouraged, but it has to be your son's individuality, not yours. If those differ, they differ. Even when he first asserts that individuality, ages 6-8, you have to be careful. Kids don't understand the consequences. Later, they do, and they can make the choice of whether individuality or conforming is more important.

Posted By: uzma
Date Posted: Oct 10, 2003 at 4:22pm

ndividuality is great and should be encouraged, but it has to be your son's individuality, not yours. If those differ, they differ.

You put that really well, Rod.
I agree wholeheartedly. ), R '. `p %

Posted By: cadensmama2002
Date Posted: Oct 10, 2003 at 9:49pm

actually you all would be suprised on how much he did have to say about the whole thing....i'm told he SCREAMED his head off from the moment he saw the salon until he was in the car...then when i saw him he kept looking in the mirror and asking
Caden????and pulling at his hair. this continued for 2 days after the haircut...he used to grab my brush everyday to brush his hair now he grabs the brush to "help mom brush her hair" he used to look in the mirror all the time now he seems indifferent. Even his father noticed the change in his personality so I know its not my imagination....since the incident...my mother in law is FORBIDDEN to have any contact with him w/o supervision....indeffinetly(spelling?) this may sound harsh but if you met her you would understand...although it has been 3 weeks, I am still furious hope it passes

Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Oct 10, 2003 at 9:54pm

Let's be realistic and honest here.
I have a 5 year old daughter. Even though I wear my hair very short, my daughter has fairly long hair, a little girl's style and length of hair.

Now I believe very much in individuality. But I also know that when children are small, boys wear short hair and girls have hair a little longer. That is common so we can tell boys from girls.
Now when boys and girls become men and women they mature. Their bodies mature and their voices and facial features mature. So even if a woman is bald or a man has hair down to his ankles, you can still easily tell that the bald woman is a woman and the man with long hair is a man. But when kids are real little,-(unless you peek under their little clothes tee hee, nothing dirty intended there!)- it is harder to tell isn't it!
Of course a little girl with very short hair or a little boy with very long hair would be ostracized by the other kids! That's a no brainer! You have to use your common sense.

When the boy is grown up and has a man's features then he can grow his hair to his knees if he wants to, like the handsome Dave Decker who moderates the long hair board here does. Many men have long hair.

And when a girl grows up and has a woman's body and features, then, if she wants to, she can wear her hair very short as I do. Many women wear their hair in short hair styles.

Adults are different than kids. Don't put your kid through alot of uneccesary hell. Life is tough enough for kids.4!,!

Posted By: cadensmama2002
Date Posted: Oct 10, 2003 at 10:08pm

tina i really dont think thats fair...when he gets old enough to make his own decisions i'm all for it and if its a crew cut or high and tight FINE! no problem...however if you had read my first post about if i should cut his hair you would realize i'm not forcing anthing...furthermore i own a daycare and i am more than aware than the average person on how cruel kids can be...however he really seemed to enjoy his hair long..he brushed it everyday and hardly ever got food in it...he even enjoyed having it washed and conditioned...he is very well liked by all the kids in daycare as well as really being a people person when we go to the park he says hi to anyone who happens to pass...so i really resent the implication that somehow i am forcing this child to do anything...I had 8 miscarriages before finally being able to give birth to him and I only want to make him the happiest most well adjusted child, i gave up my career as a morgage banker and moved to a different state just so i could devote all my time to him...does that sound like a child who is being put through unneccesary hell of childhood....he is very much a rough and tumble little boy who just happened to like long hair...

Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Oct 10, 2003 at 10:48pm

I know you love your kid and I'm sure you are a good mother, but you have to realize he and his playmates are still very young. A couple of years from now when he's 4 or 5 yrs. old, other kids when they are that age are a little meaner and know more than when they are 2. Then he would get a bad time from the other kids. If I were you I wouldn't get too angry with the person who had your son's hair cut. They were just trying to protect him.

But that's your problem to deal with.

Good luck to you and yours.4!,!

Posted By: cadensmama2002
Date Posted: Oct 10, 2003 at 10:55pm

at 4 and 5 years old he can tell me how he wants his hair... he already makes choices about his appearance...if he doesnt like his shirt he takes it off and bring me a new one...if he wants different shoes he brings me the shoe he wants etc. so my main gripe is not if his hair is long or short...it is the gall of this woman who cut his hair, not to protect him but so as not to embarrass her in front of her little click of old women friends...

Posted By: princessmonica
Date Posted: Oct 11, 2003 at 12:07am

i think the whole point is this person did it agaist your wishes. which i feel that person had no business doing. just my 2 cents. $- P cn`dp0% 00BB .(4`p /.%%%,-!,%!% !, b` -.

Posted By: duke
Date Posted: Oct 11, 2003 at 5:24am

Well, thank you, Cadensmama for showing
some of the posters that a 17-month-old
IS able to express preferences!

It is time people learned that a young
child is not a vegetable. Here is something
from my huge living-encyclopedia fact
database: King Louis XIII of France could
play the violin when he was just about
exactly Caden's age! Anyway, Cadensmama
said it all - he not only complained, but was
adversely affected by having his hair cut.

Tina M, I don't agree with you. Whatever
the advantages of having different lengths
of hair to distinguish childrens' gender
(and yes, there are advantages), that is
no excuse for forced haircuts. Children
should not have to look a certain way for
your viewing convenience. How do you
think the mother felt when the mother in
law did that?

Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Oct 11, 2003 at 10:48am

How many kids do you have Duke? My guess is none.

Wait until you have a son, if you ever do Duke. Let the kid have long hair when he goes to school. Watch the kid get beat up by other boys in the school and mocked by the girls.

Maybe Grandma was wrong to give the kid a haircut because it wasn't her kid. But the mother should have had enough common sense to give the boy a haircut.

And when children are small Duke we "force" them to do all kinds of things, otherwise they would grow up to be spoiled brats. I don't care if some freakish genius played the violin when he was little. Kids obviously need to learn things from their parents and adults, including that they don't always get their way about everything.

We "force" them to help with chores, we "force" them to be toilet trained. We "force" them to go to pre-school, to church. We force them to wear warm clothes in the winter so they don't catch cold, etc. We "force" them to do all kinds of stuff, including getting haircuts.

Children need to learn things, including they don't always get their way. If not they grow up stupid, selfish and spoiled, which is one of the big problems we have in the western world at least with the wealthier classes. They spoil there little darlings, let them do whatever they like, in the name of "sensitivity to the child". What a bunch of liberal elite BALONEY!!! What a bunch of AIRHEAD parents!!!!! I mean I'm liberal in some ways but my daughter is not a spoiled brat, and neither will the child I'm presently pregnant with be spoiled. I didn't grow up withe the rich liberal set of people, thank God!

Kids have to learn the meaning of no as well as yes. They need to learn they don't always get what they want. And parents often do make decisions for kids when they are little, otherwise you are not doing your job as a parent.

I hope you don't have kids Duke if you think that two year olds should be able to do whatever they like. They don't have maturity yet, they are not adults yet. They are little kids. They don't get to make every decision when they are a little kid. Geeezzz. Anyone would know that!

Thank God some people still have common sense when raising kids, that we are not all airheads yet.4!,!

Posted By: Karrinne
Date Posted: Oct 11, 2003 at 11:33am

The point is, Caden's mother did NOT want his hair cut. It seems Caden himself did NOT want his hair cut either. The mother in law took it upon herself and she was way out of line.
Little kids can and do want to have long hair. I have long hair, my ex had long hair. My son had long hair, no cuts until he was five or six.
When I remarried to a man with short hair, who had a son with short hair, my boy ASKED to have his hair cut to match the others in the family.
He kept his hair short until he was 21, and has grown it out for about a year.
No one gave him a lot of grief about his long hair, he just said it was long like daddy's and that pretty much ended it.
I let him do as he liked, and I do NOT understand these people who hve a major control trip about their kid's hair. My girls knew I preferred their hair long, and the older ones did not cut until they were over 18, out of respect for me. If they had cut it earlier, I have to admit, I would have tried to discourage them, BUT I would not have said absolutely not, the world will end, punishment will commence, etc., like some people do.
The youngest got crazy with her girlfriends and fried her hair one weekend and I myself cut it and it has been short ever since. She likes it and I have gotten used to it.
Caden's mom, let his hair grow out, thankfully little kids' hair seems to grow pretty quickly. Bless his little heart, it breaks my heart to think of him looking in the mirror and wondering about his hair. I am with you, tell Grandma to buzz off and stay gone!!!!!

Tina M, I think you are trying to push your personal beliefs about child rearing onto Caden's mom and that was not what she asking for. Saying that she should have had "enough common sense to give the kid a haircut" is rude and not called for. Lighten up a little, the kid's hair length is her business, not the mother in law's and not yours (or mine) either.(!) Pid`a$``a $.,br /6,`` " !,%!)!, ,---0"" "<

Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Oct 11, 2003 at 12:27pm

Karrine, I could care less about this woman or her kid, I don't even know them.
But in most neighborhoods, maybe not all neighborhoods, a little boy that stands out from the rest of the little boys and appears to them to be "girly" is going to get his little rear end kicked.

For better or worse we are not living in the "hippie" era any more you might have noticed. Yes there are still some long haired men but very rarely, anywhere I have been in recent years in America, do you see little boys with long hair. They would obviously be picked on and ostracized, especially in tough blue collar neighborhoods.

But like I said it's not my problem, I've got my own kids to raise.
4!,!

Posted By: Jenna
Date Posted: Oct 11, 2003 at 1:52pm

In my experience, kids are teased more often about the way they carry themselves than their actual physical appearance. I remember a couple boys with longer hair and they were never made fun of, and I grew up in a pretty conservative area. Some kids who were overweight were teased and tortured, but others who were just as heavy were "popular" and respected. Looking "different" will definately put the kid at a slight disadvantage, but if he is confidant, charismatic and friendly he shouldn't won't have any problems. Just to clarify, I'm talking about when he'll reach kindergarten and elementary school, not his current age of 17 months. I don't have any children of my own, but I'm 18 so I still remember my own childhood fairly well.

On a side note, I do think tina has some sensible ideas on not letting children do whatever they want. However, the reason I don't think hair fits into this is because it's a superficial decision, and doesn't affect the health or well being of the child. Also, why is forcing a child to cut their hair better than forcing them to keep it long? Both seem to be personal preferences of the parents.

Posted By: DakotaDiva
Date Posted: Oct 11, 2003 at 2:24pm

i know what you mean tina, i live in the midwest and in many parts of the country like the midwest, and other parts of the country, a girly boy with long hair , well, the kids would make life miserable for him.

Posted By: Laine1998
Date Posted: Oct 12, 2003 at 3:22am

Dakota,

What is your opinion of long hair. I too used to live in the mid-west and it was quite normal to have shoulder length or so on a guy, and he was wearing a cowboy hat!

For me, personally, I'm around military hair cuts all the time, so long hair on a guy is to that length, but I do remember seeing a lot of that!

Edited to add that Dave's hair with the definition of long just doesn't do it justice

Posted By: duke
Date Posted: Oct 12, 2003 at 5:17am

You're absolutely right, Tina. I DON'T
have kids. And I think I never will,
either. And you know why? Because
there is too much evil, controlling and
misery in the world. But I flatly
disagree with you that one must
make all the decisions for little kids.
Just plain having your way does not
make you "spoiled". Being given too
much money, toys, electronic
equipment etc, not being expected to
behave like a good citizen etc. It has
nothing to do with just having choices
in life - and certainly nothing to do
with such trivial things as how to wear
your hair.

Posted By: duke
Date Posted: Oct 12, 2003 at 5:26am

Oh - one more thing. All this hullaballoo
about a little boy having long hair. But
do you know how many little girls I have
seen whose hair is short? So short that
they fit the image some would have of
a little boy. I'll bet there could be found
easy reasons to explain it away - it's a
"cute little haircut", it's more practical
etc. But with some people, a little boy
with long hair doesn't stand a chance.
How sexist. Forget labels like hippie,
preppy, fashionable, unfashionable etc.
By not allowing people to express
themselves, we are creating needless,
artificial standards that only serve to
perpetuate malcontentedness.

Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Oct 12, 2003 at 12:14pm

Are you not going to have kids Duke because the world is just such an awful, evil place like you say, it's just terrible, or are you not going to have kids because you're such a sap no woman would have you?4!,!

Posted By: DakotaDiva
Date Posted: Oct 12, 2003 at 1:24pm

laine,

my husband has long hair, i was talking about long hair on little boys not men.

Posted By: Laine1998
Date Posted: Oct 12, 2003 at 1:28pm

Wow, things are getting a bit crazy in here.

The fact that it was a boy or girl wasn't the issue Tina, the issue was that it was done without parental consent. The boundaries were crossed, and that is the main problem.

Yes this is very upsetting for her, she had posted a message before about whether to cut his hair or not. If I had been in the same situation, I would of been just as upset!

Posted By: Jenna
Date Posted: Oct 12, 2003 at 2:39pm

Don't you think we should refrain from making personal insults here? You never know if those might actually hurt a person or not, even if it's just a message board.

Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Oct 12, 2003 at 8:15pm

Oh come on Jenna, the little twerp Duke set himself up for an insult. He said he may never have kids because the world is such a controlling, evil, miserable place. What kind of sappy self-pity is that? That is laughable! Poor Duke, the world is so mean !
Now if people don't want to have kids or can't for some reason have kids, that's fine, not everyone is supposed to have children.

But not have kids because the world is so miserable and mean. A world with "mean" people in it like little 'ol Tina, us people that are so "mean" and "controlling" to our children?
I will have you know I have a beautiful, smart, well-adjusted daughter, and yes sometimes I'm strict with her, other times a little less so, I allow her to grow and learn but I also give her some discipline in a loving but firm way, as a parent should.4!,!

Posted By: Jenna
Date Posted: Oct 12, 2003 at 8:30pm

Tina I didn't mean to single you out, but in general I think it's better not to take things to a personal level.

I won't speak for him, but I think he meant the world in general was evil, and I doubt he was implying it was because of people like you. Perhaps he was referring to the world tension and our own government which can be too controlling. Sorry for getting off topic here. I agree that you sound like a good parent, and no would here would imply you were evil and controlling for cutting your daughter's hair.

Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Oct 12, 2003 at 8:43pm

Well I'm glad some people have kids Jenna, otherwise there would be no people!

If some people don't want to have kids that's fine, but to say I'm not going to have kids because the world is too mean, or the government is too mean, or people are too mean is ridiculous. That's self-pity. What if everyone thought like that? There would be no people! That would be boring!

This Duke guy, I don't know how old he is, but he writes silly.4!,!

Posted By: Jenna
Date Posted: Oct 12, 2003 at 11:10pm

It's definately not a bad thing to have kids, especially if you're a responsible parent and teach them to be positive influence on society. We need more people like that, and you and caden's mom seem to be doing a great job. I still think it's an equally valid viewpoint to not want to bring children into a world that you don't agree with, and it's a personal decision so I wouldn't call it right or wrong. I'm sure we'll never run into the problem of a lack of people, given the current statistics of world overpopulation.

now what were we talking about? hair, government, something of that nature.

Posted By: KathyAnn
Date Posted: Oct 12, 2003 at 11:49pm

*Actually Jenna birthrates are dropping all over the world.
It started in western countries and now it's spreading virtually everywhere. Even in the third world countries birthrates are down 50% in the past twenty years. In some western countries as well as in Japan and China, birthrates have dropped below the replacement level of two children per two adults. The world's population, sooner than you know it, may start to shrink if current trends continue.
Some people are happy about that, less pollution they say, but you need a certain amount of young people to sustain a decent economy, and there are other ways to reduce poluution such as hydrogen or fuel cell automobiles.
The overpopulation problem is almost over if world trends continue. Fifty years from now they could be talking about an "underpopulation" problem.

*Having said that though I am fully aware that not everyone is destined to have children.
I am a childless lesbian woman myself, although my life partner Tina has a daughter as she told you whom we are raising together, and she is presently pregnant again.
*As far as the long haired boy, short haired girl situation, there is a status quo of sorts. Most people let their girls hair grow a bit and cut their boys hair short. As Tina pointed out, this isn't always the case with adults. A large number of adult women wear their hair short and some men still wear long hair, but like Tina pointed out, they have adult features and bodies so you can easily tell the men from the women.
*There are societal norms. This is a fact.* As a lesbian couple, Tina and I, especially in the middle class suburban setting where we live, don't flaunt our lesbianism. We keep a low profile. People that know us well know that we are a couple, but to others, Tina is the mother with the child and I am a roomate living with them.
I don't refer to Tina as my wife, nor does she refer to me as her female husband or her mate. Tina's daughter calls her mom. I have always been Kathy to her. I am not her mom, even if I help in raising her. *Some lesbians believe people like us should be very upfront, very open with everyone about our relationship, but we have to consider not only the prejudice that still exists towards us, but also how it can affect our daughter. We do protect her.
*Likewise a mother or father who, for their own satisfaction, dresses a boy as a girl or visa versa, or who isists on having her little boy grow long hair as a little girl would, is selfishly exposing their child to unecessary ridicule and humiliation, which could "toughen" the kid up, but it could also scar and disturb the child for life. You never know.*
*Yes we are all individuals with our freedoms, but to completely ignore societal norms in the name of individualism or just plain contrariness, can be very selfish where children are concerned.

Posted By: Jenna
Date Posted: Oct 13, 2003 at 12:35am

Those are interesting statistics, though I still don't agree we're dealing with a future threat of underpopulation. Depending on what sources you go by, you'll see different predictions of the future. PRB says the world is expected to raise to 9 billion by 2050, which is up 3 billion from the year 2000. That doesn't mean it's right or wrong to have kids, but imo we should respect each other's decisions. I think it's wonderful you and Tina have a child whom you take good care of, and at the same time I empathize with duke's decision not to want kids. I'm really not trying to argue with either of you, so I'm sorry if you saw it that way.

group hug? no, I won't go that far.

Posted By: KathyAnn
Date Posted: Oct 13, 2003 at 1:42am

*Yeah some people say we will eventually have 9 billion people on earth before the population starts to drop. These were the same people that a few years ago were saying we were going to have 12 billion people. Then they revised it to 10 billion. Now they say 9 billion. Already there are some study groups saying 8 billion.
I'm talking about trends, especially in the third world which is seeing most of the population growth. If the downward trend continues the world will grow a little, level off and start to drop, and it can happen very quickly. Look at Italy or Japan, high growth rate to depopulation in twenty years.
*I have studied demographics and social trends for years for years. It interests me.
* Just as I reject leftist radical lesbianism and feminism, even though I am both a lesbian and a feminist, I also reject the leftist population control fanatics, who are running around trying to convince perfectly healthy women to have abortions rather than adoption. People are surprised when they learn that I am not a leftist. After all I'm a lesbian, aren't they all supposed to be radical leftists? But the world in general and the first world countries in particullar, are far too leftist on social issues.
*As a lesbian woman, I want equal rights but that doesn't have to mean we need to teach 5 year olds about lesbianism in the schools. Most people are in fact hetrosexual and want to teach their children that. As a lesbian I understand full well that my lifestyle will always be in the minority. All I ask is to be left alone and not harrassed, abused or bothered by people that disagree with my lifestyle.
I do believe in shared benefits for unmarried hetrosexual couples and gay and lesbian couples but that is simply an economic matter. I am not the least bit interested in forcing my lesbian lifestyle on anyone or acting obnoxious about it like unfortunatly some of my fellow lesbians do.
Well enough of that, I can't sleep tonight but I have to get at least a couple of hours of sleep before work so I'm off to bed. Please excuse the lecture.

Posted By: duke
Date Posted: Oct 13, 2003 at 4:16am

Another thread gone absolutely amok.

In case you want to know, Tina, I am
almost 24. I do not expect everyone
to stop having children. It is my personal
decision and one can choose to agree or
disagree with it. You call it "self-pity",
but it's the kids I'm thinking about, not
myself. The truth is, I would LOVE to have
kids. I think it would be very fulfilling.
But for their sake, I believe it would be
better to not have them. I don't expect
you to understand. If you saw the world
from the perspective that I do, you
would likely agree. I did not arrive at my
decision lightly. Various factors came
together (ethical, political and sociological)
in order for me to decide that it would be
best not to bring any more kids into the
world. I am not the first person to make
such a decision.

Posted By: duke
Date Posted: Oct 13, 2003 at 9:26am

And another thing, Tina. You attach
such importance to societal standards.
I say, individuals' rights are more
important. I don't mean not having
good manners and stuff - there are
rules (such as covering your mouth
when you cough, not insulting people
etc) in order to help us function in
society. But society won't fall apart
if people fight to look like they want.
Let me pose you a simple question.
Do you wear pants? I bet you do, like
most women nowadays. But women
used to have to wear skirts and
dresses. A century ago, it was also
(at least in middle and upper class
society) expected that women would
wear several skirts under their skirts,
and make their waists as thin as
possible by tightening them with
these uncomfortable girdles that
could cut your breath or give you
cancer. Now, how do you think it
happened that women are allowed
to wear comfortable clothes today?
Did they just sit back and say "aw,
shucks, we just have to conform"
and wait for someone to allow them
to throw away the corset and put
on a pair of britches? NO! They
flaunted society's standards and
dared to fight for their right to look
as they saw fit. So I say, let your
kids do what they want and, if they
so wish, fight against society's
unreasonable standards.

By the way, I re-read cadensmama's
original question about whether
she should cut Caden's hair. I read
the thread again, and was surprised
that you, Tina, defended the idea of
Caden having long hair, and very
vigorously at that. What made you
change your mind?

Posted By: cadensmama2002
Date Posted: Oct 13, 2003 at 2:41pm

ok i really need to jump in here since i posted the original message...tina, i'm not raising my son to be picked on..my husband,father,grandfather,etc were and are all blue collar...furthermore my husband was a freestyle wrestler...the second best way to defend yourself there is...next to jujitsu...he was cal state champ 3x and 2nd in the nation...now he coaches young kids to wrestle in his spare time...caden is not going to have a problem defending himself if thats neccesary....he doesnt run amuck doing as he pleases...we are very strict..he is being raised to be polite and a productive member of society...my whole beef was w/my mother-in-law interefering...not really how long his hair is...and also her reasons for cutting it...if you read my 1st thread posts you will see the pics of my son and realize he did not have long girl hair. just barely shoulder length in back...so i really dont understand why u are having such a cow...as we say here on the west coast...CHILL...there are so many more things that you could channel all that anger at..for the greater good so to speak.. ps i'm republican!!!

Posted By: Laine1998
Date Posted: Oct 13, 2003 at 5:58pm

Duke,

Thats good that you decided (Before I'm assuming) you had kids that you didn't want any. Many times its after the fact that the truth comes out.

My sister who is 12 years older than myself (I just turned 23) decided very early that she didn't want to have children. Her husband had 3 daughters from a previous marriage, which suited her fine. Her reasons were quite simple,
1. my mom had her help with the at-home daycare, where she was aorund kids from 7am-5pm 5 days a week for several years. After that she was like Ewww.
2. The divorce rate is SO high, our mom and her dad were divorced, and she remembers all of that. Plus seeing other families split up by divorce, and everything that goes with it, she didn't want to take a chance of that happening.
She had her tubes tied at about 28 I think (after seeing a psychologist per her OB dr's request) and she is completely happy with that.
_______________________________________
On another note.....
Tina,
I think people should respect other's opinions on what they say. You may not agree with it, but no reason to be rude to them about it. There isn't any need to call names to people on here. Your asking how old how he is, maybe you should ask yourself the same questions....
_______________________________________
edited to add:
No I don't have kids yet, I plan on it in the next few years though. I am about 10 classes away from my Bachelors degree, and I feel that is an important step to complete first!

Posted By: Jenna
Date Posted: Oct 13, 2003 at 7:31pm

Very good post Laine. We're never going to be able to agree about everything, which is what makes the world interesting and diverse. It's natural to disagree, but it makes the world a little smoother if it's done respectfully and nonjudgementally.

Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Oct 13, 2003 at 9:10pm

Laine, you asked how old I am, I'm 27, and a very grown up lady I might add.
I'm also a great lover, ask any man or woman I've been with!-(tee hee)-.
Jenna, Kathy is a Republican like you-(thankfully a moderate one!)-. I'm more for the Democrats, although on most days I believe they can all take a hike for what little good they do us!

4!,!

Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Oct 13, 2003 at 9:11pm

Sorry, I didn't mean Jenna, I meant Cadensmama!

4!,!

Posted By: arch94
Date Posted: Oct 13, 2003 at 10:52pm

As much as I agree with ya, better be careful or almighty D.D. will start preaching at you with 10 or 12 posts on the subject.! ! @ cnat r` $ .0`b /.0 ` % ,))%,,,!,$ %4` /4

Posted By: cadensmama2002
Date Posted: Oct 13, 2003 at 11:50pm

can we please get over the fact that i'm not freaking out so much about his hair!!!!hello!!!am i not being clear? did i not say i liked his new cut?just the way it was done was complete crap!!yes i liked his hair longer...but it wasn't like it was down to his butt!! and as far as getting a life...does a masters in finance and my own daycare not constitute a life? besides my child IS my life...i'm almost 32 and have waited a long time for such a beautiful, sweet being....so the next time we swing insulting messages we should really get the facts...otherwise we just look ignorant!!

ps tina i agree with you...i am also on the moderate republican side but most of politicians can take a long walk....short pier!!

Posted By: duke
Date Posted: Oct 14, 2003 at 4:55am

Brent - I know Tina did not advocate
keeping Caden's hair long in THIS
thread. She did in cadensmama's
ORIGINAL thread (around August,
see I think page 3 of this forum)
when she asked if she should cut
his hair or not.

Longhairedlover, if you had carefully
read the above posts, you would
have noticed that Caden had a very
adverse reaction to the haircut. I
hope it doesn't scar him for life (as
silly as that may sound, such early
experiences can have an impact on
peoples' psyches). And his mother
was certainly freaked that the
grandma dragged him off like that
behind her back. So I think your
comments are out of line.

Posted By: Erinlynn
Date Posted: Oct 14, 2003 at 7:24am

Its was horribly wrong for your mom to cut your sons hair without permission.

Your son might not be used to having the short hair but he will get over it quick enough. If he really wants it long he will say so eventualy (perhaps he will protest a future hair cutting option..."does Caden want to get his hair cut so its out of his face"? "NO!!!!!" Of course he might just be afraid of the hair cutters..they are scary when your young).

He is so young his hair will be long in no time at all! Now at least you know you like it short too.

In the end it should be Cadens choice when hes old enough to know he wants it one way over the other and not that he just wants it how it was out of familiarity (which may be the case too). (...he has a nice name by the way).

If I were a parent of a young boy I would keep it short untill he requests to grow it long. Why? Because it is easier on boys to have short hair at young ages. If I would like to have him grow long hair (which I probably eventualy would) I might suggested that hed look good with it long or even that Id like to see him grow it but that it is his choice.

my three cents

Posted By: Erinlynn
Date Posted: Oct 14, 2003 at 7:38am

"Oh come on Jenna, the little twerp Duke set himself up for an insult. He said he may never have kids because the world is such a controlling, evil, miserable place. What kind of sappy self-pity is that? That is laughable! Poor Duke, the world is so mean ! "

Um actualy Ive felt the same way as Duke on this particular matter. I dont think it laughable at all. The world has much to offer but there are still alot of perils. Sometimes it is difficult to love someone so deeply when you see them getting hurt or misused. To see your own child go through such pain must be heart acheing and a person with a tender heart who knows the pains of life might wish to not create a person who will have to go through such pains. So i understand the desire to not have children. I dont think it selfish...just a matter of protecting ones heart and not putting someone else in the situation to hurt.

However, on the other side, life isnt always all terrible. There is much love and pleasure to be found. If you dont have kids you may miss out on this. But the choice to not have kids is not a selfish choice. Just a personal choice. Goodness sake we dont all need to procreate!

I dont know if I want kids. Ive experienced things I dont want them to experience. But I know if i ever do have kids they will hurt as I have. maybe in different ways but there are people out there who will casue them pain. Hopefuly my kids wont be the ones causeing the pain. Its a tough world and a tough choice for someone who loves deeply and has felt pain and conciders the possibility of a child with the reality of bringing someone into a world of pain and pleasure alike.

Posted By: Erinlynn
Date Posted: Oct 14, 2003 at 7:43am

"Well I'm glad some people have kids Jenna, otherwise there would be no people! "

Personaly I think we need more people like Duke who concider what type of world they bring thier children into. Im not saying everyone should NOT have kids. Just that they shouldnt selfishly have kids for the wrong reasons and that in general it would be better for fewer kids to be born. Overpopulation is not a good or healthy thing. Its not just SOME poeple haveing kids. Its MANY MANY people haveing kids! ...and many many of them being born into situations that are not the best.

Posted By: Jenna
Date Posted: Oct 14, 2003 at 2:57pm

d`.$ @" `` H 6

I have had similar thoughts, because depression strongly runs in my family, and if I had a child I'm sure they would have a high chance of inheriting that.

I personally wouldn't want anyone to go through all of the things I have, and I don't consider that a selfish decision. At this point I would consider either adopting abroad or just keeping pets, since I love animals so much.

Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Oct 14, 2003 at 8:58pm

I agree Brent. Kids are worth it.
You are right Duke, I did write that it's ok for boy's to have long hair and go ahead and teach them karate . But I was thinking more of older boys when I wrote that, not little boys. I was obviously being silly too in the way I wrote it.4!,!

Posted By: hairalways
Date Posted: Oct 14, 2003 at 10:56pm

Cadensmama - That is aweful! As a mom of 3 boys and 1 girl I can relate to a lot of what everyone has said here. First off - a 17 month old definitely has a clear sense of him/herself. Out of all of my kids, 2 of the 3 boys Now 6 and 8 yrs) have always wanted their hair short - one likes it long (4 yrs old) and my daughter, who just turned 2 has been asking me to get her hair cut (which I did) and has proceeded to show it off to anyone who will admire it for the past month. I guess I just think there are other battles I would prefer to win with my kids.

Anyway - The thing I think is totally wrong is for grandma to push HER own personal style on your child without permission. believe me - IMO you did the right thing (this comes from experience) She would continue this type of controlling behavior in other aspects if you didn't put your foot down now.

Good intentions are not good intentions if only one party thinks they are. jmho

jacqui

Posted By: uzma
Date Posted: Oct 16, 2003 at 5:18pm

Too many personal insults on this thread

Duke - I'm right with you - and respect your viewpoint.
I have chosen not to have children because the city/society I live in is sick and dangerous, the relationships people form tend to be unstable and dis-functional and a myriad other reasons.
However, this subject does not belong on the Long Hair Support board, so I'll say no more about it here.

The above "unknown" poster needs to engage some basic good manners.

Please be polite, respectful and relevant.
), R '. `p %

Posted By: princessmonica
Date Posted: Oct 16, 2003 at 7:40pm

[QUOTE=uzma]

Too many personal insults on this thread

she came her for support because her son's hair was cut against her wishes. $- P cn`dp0% 00BB .(4`p /.%%%,-!,%!% !, b` -.

Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Oct 17, 2003 at 2:03am

I love all of you ladies but I think many of you are being so OVERDRAMATIC! Yes the world is a c.r.a.p.h.o.l.e. we all know that. And if you have kids they will probably be negativly influenced by this awful world and grow up bad and become criminals, prostitutes, drug abusers, lesbians or bisexuals, even waste their time writing on computer boards like this rather than helping humanity and doing something constructive!!!

Well I did all of those nasty, nasty things, I admit it, and I'm happy, -(or at least I'm not too p.i.s.s.e.d off most of the time, tee hee!!!

)-. And my life isn't all that bad-(or so I tell myself)-.

It's true, the world is terrible, filled with too many punks and misfits,-(and I don't like alot of people I meet either, so I know whatcha mean!)-, and nearly every government is terrible, I hate most of them, but whatcha gonna do?

If you really look at people, what are we really?

We are some kind of evolved stnking ape! We're nothing special, we are just mammals with a little bigger brain than the other stinking animals, but we're still animals! We're mammals! And it wasn't that many generations ago that our ancestors were swinging from the trees and living in caves!-

. So I can appreciate all of your ideals, but please be realistic! We are nothing special, we're just mammals, just humans!
Oh you don't believe we're animals you say? The next time you get hungry, or h.o.r.n.y or have to use the bathroom, try and tell me your not a stinking animal , you are!
Why do you think we spend so much money on soap, and deodorant, and tampaxs, and makeup, and jewelry, and nice clothing, and everything else we spend money on. Because we are just human animals and we are trying to make ourselves look and feel better about ourselves, and pretend we are not just another stinkin mammal!

You have a problem with this mean world? Well, just get your mace, your tear gas canister, your switchblade,your semi-automatic pistol if need be, and buy several locks for your doors, and make the best of it!

. JUST DON'T BE A SAP AND FEEL SORRY FOR YOURSELF AND THIS RIDICULOUS WORLD! IT'S A C.R.A.P.H.O.L.E., SO WHAT!
HAVE FUN, S.C.R.E.W IT!!!

and Monica, we would never be mean to you!

4!,!

Posted By: uzma
Date Posted: Oct 17, 2003 at 4:01am

Tina ), R '. `p %

Posted By: hairalways
Date Posted: Oct 17, 2003 at 5:42am

Uzma - I think it is a very selfless decision you have made. It is definitely a tough world. I wish others who are not in a state to bring forth productive generations would do the same. The world would be in so much a better state. I have also been thinking the same things as you about the rash of illness that "plagues" our world...it is a "thinning of the herd" that seems to occur when things are calm. This type of mass illness began when humans started living in colonies that were enclosed. Black plague, small pox, etc was much more easily transmittable in the dingy, densly populated fortifications of mideival earth. Also today, the Sars virus in heavily populated Asia...I have concluded from this that we humans are really not meant to multiply to the point where we are in a dense population. When we do, illness and disease steps in to "thin us out" a bit.....Interesting thinking, hmmmmm
Of course you know that I am from the opposite side of the tracks. I have 4 lovely, environmentally conscious offspring. Thay have been active in habitat for humanity, community services in our town and help here at home to conserve energy and materials. We are members of the Union of concerned scientists and also try to demonstrate and sign petitons to encourage EC living in our country.
I guess I have positive outlook about it (not that you don't)...yes, the there is darkness in the world, but without the light you can't see it. I am investing in the future of the world by leaving behind 4 people who might incite change for the better.

Jacqui

Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Oct 17, 2003 at 8:36am

Geeez you people are serious!

.

4!,!

Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Oct 17, 2003 at 8:44am

Actually Uzma, I understand what you are saying, all except the part that having kids and your own little unit is selfish. It's not selfish ti have kids. As I said before, it's good that some people procreate, otherwise there are no people,which would be pretty boring, and no one to pay your old folks pension either.

I also don't buy this business that the world is coming to an end. Sure there's pollution and war , it's bad and may get worse, but we'll muddle through.4!,!

Posted By: uzma
Date Posted: Oct 17, 2003 at 11:20am

It's down to individual perspectives and personal choice, Brent.
Not a case of "good" and "bad" - nothing so simplistic.

With regard to my use of the term "selfish", let me clarify that those who reproduce may do so for personal physiological fulfillment (or whatever other reason) and it is the most natural and valid thing for humans to do. Almost a primary objective.

The amount of sacrifices I have seen parents make for their kids is anything but selfish.
My comments were made from an anthropological top-down perspective, considering the large-scale scenario we have created.

I consider the big city a zoo and our lives here lived in cages. We display all the paranoia and isolationist behaviour that other animals display when they are confined.
Hence, I would not want to bring another inmate into this, albeit open, prison.

I often escape out into areas of wilderness and get a taste of what it could be like to breathe free air. The return to London is difficult and is becoming intolerable.

Jacqui - I have the utmost respect and admiration for you and the way you are bringing up your brood. You are nurturing hope.

Bless you

. ), R '. `p %

Posted By: princessmonica
Date Posted: Oct 17, 2003 at 12:21pm

i would like to put in my 2 cents about having kids. i'm really not sure. in feb. i had my miscarriage which was the most heartbreaking thing i went through. in fact since sept i've been having a hard time with it since my baby would of been born. i've decided on not having kids right now because without going into great detail my life is very complicated right now. maybe it will change maybe it won't.... $- P cn`dp0% 00BB .(4`p /.%%%,-!,%!% !, b` -.

Posted By: uzma
Date Posted: Oct 17, 2003 at 1:26pm

I'm so sorry for your loss, Monica.
Hope things improve in your life soon.
I'll PM you.

Lots of love. ), R '. `p %

Posted By: BaldJasmine
Date Posted: Oct 17, 2003 at 4:03pm

I can appreciate all of your viewpoints, they are all valid for each of you in your own individual ways.
I have two children, but that was the choice of myself and my husband. Others have to make their own choices about such things.
I'm like Brent though, I'm a city person.
I love Chicago!,

Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Oct 17, 2003 at 8:30pm

Of course you're right Jasmine, it's all about individual choice.

You are so right Brent, the worst of us are breeding too much and the good people not enough!!!

.
If Uzi had kids they would all grow up to work in humanitarian and scientific fields and do great things for people and the environment. But it is people like me the average nobodies-(or worse!)- that are having the kids. People like me, the common rabble, who just work our little jobs, drink beer and eat hamburgers, and basically just want to go on our own little selfish way, and have fun, and most of the time could care less about saving the world.

Actually it's the religious nuts who are having the most kids. I read an article in the paper about this weird fundamentalist Christian religious cult who live in St. Paul. They have about ten kids per family.

The reason the Middle East is so messed up and getting worse is because for the past 30 years, the Orthodox Jews, not the moderate Jews, and the Fundamentalist Muslim Palestinians, not the moderate Muslims, have been having most of the kids over in the Middle East. They are raised as religious loonies of course and then they grow up and kill each other in the name of God and their respective "Holy" books, -(or their misinterpetation of the Holy books)-.
Between these religious nuts and the greedy rich people, the rest of us are S.C.R.E.W.E.D!!!
That's why when I hear George Bush and his people say it's great that we are bringing democracy to Iraq, I really wonder, is it? They will probably either elect a moron like Saddam Hussein-(or for that matter George W.)- or else they will elect a religious nut, like the idiots that run Iran. So where is the progress!

And it's too late for Eugenics, getting the Uzma's of the world to breed more and the idiots to breed less. The rabble are already too numerous. If you don't believe me, go out and drive your car. Look at all the idiot drivers on the road!
Look at all the stupid T.V. shows that are popular like these dumb "reality" shows, which are actually "unreality", they are just stupid contrived shows. There are a thousand examples of how humanity is dumbing itself down. Or maybe we were always sort of stupid and poorly behaved. Who knows?

To show you how evolved I am , I'm teed off tonight because Kathy came home from work and drank a beer that my ex left here, but because I'm pregnant I can't drink a beer-(I never drink any booze when I'm knocked up)-. So I'm annoyed. I feel like drinking a beer, but I won't. And that's tough for a person from Wisconsin! Half of our diet is cheese, beer and bratwurst!

You see what the rabble is concerned with? Not saving the world but eating and drinking!-( oops, almost forgot, sex too!)-

4!,!

Posted By: Laine1998
Date Posted: Oct 18, 2003 at 4:38am

And that's tough for a person from Wisconsin! Half of our diet is cheese, beer and bratwurst!

Tina, with that comment, you would get along in Germany just fine!!!

Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Oct 18, 2003 at 8:23am

Something like half the people in Wisconsin have German surnames.
Lotta Krauts in this part of the country.4!,!

Posted By: hairalways
Date Posted: Oct 18, 2003 at 6:41pm

I have to say - I think it's absolutely gorgeous the way this conversation has been swerving from one topic to another!

Tina - Congratulations on the new belly! I have a feeling that with a "savvy" mom like you, your offspring may grow to be positive and productive inhabitants of this planet - whether you like it or not.

I will throw down a few buds for you tonight

Cheers.

Thanks Uzi - you know just what to say to give me a pick me up! Been a busy day today.

Monica _ I have expeienced that same type of loss - It is definitely rough going around the due date. I hope that you are finding some peace in your life.

jacqui

Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Oct 18, 2003 at 11:49pm

Actually Jacqui my five year old daughter is a wonderful little girl; she's pretty, smart and well-behaved, maybe better than what I deserve.

Well you know what they say, there are always diamonds in the rough, or something like that. My daughter is a little gem!

With four kids you must be busy. Like we say in the upper midwest, oof da!

4!,!

Posted By: Gord
Date Posted: Oct 19, 2003 at 12:21am

I'm not really interested in the subject matter, but I figure I'm the 75th response to this one. Is that some sort of record?

Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Oct 19, 2003 at 12:35am

I don't know Gord, but you and Lyris have the record for the most posts on Hair Talk forum. You are both over 1,000. And me, Uzma, and a few others are not far behind.
Does that mean we spend way to much time on this silly website?

4!,!

Posted By: Gord
Date Posted: Oct 19, 2003 at 5:44pm

d`.$$ `(,! A ``,Ouch, Tina... I only write when I have something to say. And you? LOL... Karen/Dave: shouldn't Lyris and I qualify for a plaque or something? Or at least a lock of Karen's gorgeous hair!

Posted By: Erinlynn
Date Posted: Oct 20, 2003 at 2:29pm

I beg to differ! I do not stink and neither do any of the other animals! Excepting maybe the musking snakes and skunks. But, speaking as an animal and having smelled other animals, I do not feel we stink. ...well people who wear perfumes stink...but thats another story.

Posted By: Erinlynn
Date Posted: Oct 20, 2003 at 2:53pm

Anyways, Uzi, I feel how you do.

Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Oct 22, 2003 at 10:09pm

Erinlynn. I'm going to tell you what I tell my daughter.
You are dirty. You stink. You need to go take a shower or a bath girl, now go wash up! Don't make mommy mad at you!-(tee hee)-.

4!,!

Posted By: duke
Date Posted: Oct 23, 2003 at 4:21am

This thread has gone off on a stupid tangent. All because I made an "aside" comment that I intend to not have children because I don't want to bring more people into this world. Since then, the thread has been full of debate (not always the friendliest) on this issue and other irrelevant ones. How about we try to close this topic with a few points:

1) I do not expect everyone to agree with everyone, but we could try to mutually respect each other's opinions. I highly disagree with Tina on how to raise children and on whether or not even to have them, but I did not make fun of her views, call her a "little twerp" etc. Tee hee indeed.

2) We all see the human race in different ways. My view of it is probably more complex than what was expressed above and I don't see a point in clogging the discussion with this topic, or with jokes about it.

3) The original post was about Cadensmama being shocked that her mother-in-law took her son behind her back and had his hair cut. Does anyone have any final comments about THIS, or have we all spoken our mind? I think there is enough to show that the grandmother should not have done it. It gave both mother (for having the son dragged off like that without her knowing) and son (for having a haircut forced on him) trauma and it was totally unnecessary. The grandmother didn't want the poor kid's long hair to "embarrass" her in front of her possibly stodgy, sexist-minded friends, so she forced a haircut on him. Now she's not allowed close to him without mom being around! Are you still there, Cadensmama? How are things developing with Caden and the family?

Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Oct 23, 2003 at 4:54am

Why are these tangents "stupid" Duke.
We were just having some fun. Lighten up boy.

And this wouldn't be the first thread that went on a "tangent". Sometimes these threads are more fun when they go where they will. You ever heard of the buddhist expression "go with the flow"?

As far as raising kids, if I'm so wrong about it why do I have a beautiful, smart, loving, well adjusted daughter who has nice friends who she gets along with. My daughter is a good kid. If I was doing such a bad job as you seem to think, she wouldn't be as good as she is.
I get a kick out of people who don't have kids telling us that do what a bad job we are doing. Now if I was beating my kid or negleting her you might have a point but I'm not doing that.

4!,!

Posted By: Erinlynn
Date Posted: Oct 23, 2003 at 5:34am

Tina: Sometimes kids turn out good IN SPITE OF thier parents. So it IS possible to be a horrible parent and still have a well adjusted friendly lovely kind and good child. Im not saying you or anyone here is a bad parent, just that it is possible. So you telling us how wonderful your girl is doesnt take you off the hook.

Anyways, you are not and never will be my mother, nor can you ever compaire to or even come close to my mother. So kindly leave your parenting to your own child and take a bath yourself!

...and as an aside, I think you are simply trying to ruffle everyones feathers and get into arguements for the sake of conflict. Personaly i love debating on controversial subjects and am happy when they show up, off topic or not, however you are not debating. Your name calling and in-your-face-this-is-how-things-are additude is not debate. Its harrassment.

Besides, I dont even think I can take it seriously. I belive you say such as you do because you like to stir people up. I picture you sitting there laughing at the reactions your getting. Pure enjoyment on your part.

But such is life and such is the likes of you.

Posted By: Erinlynn
Date Posted: Oct 23, 2003 at 5:37am

Come to think of it, how old is your daughter that you still have to tell her when to take a shower?

Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Oct 23, 2003 at 8:52am

Erinlynn.
If you have read me at all you know I am kidding with people sometimes, so lighten up. Geeeeez!
My daughter is 5.4!,!

Posted By: Erinlynn
Date Posted: Oct 23, 2003 at 12:13pm

Grrrrrrr! =)

Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Oct 23, 2003 at 12:31pm

Yeah, GRRRRRRRR!!!

4!,!

Posted By: cadensmama2002
Date Posted: Oct 23, 2003 at 2:40pm

hello to all...yes i'm still out here, i'm just sitting back and pondering on how this all became so ...well, serious. i'm still upset about his hair but it will grow...he no longer even askes for his brush and he also stopped trying to brush my hair...he saw gramma the other day and when she tried to pick him up...FREAKOUT...so i can only guess he is still pretty upset. this soon shall pass eventually...i'm still sticking to my guns...no visits w/o supervision....thanks for asking

Posted By: hairalways
Date Posted: Oct 28, 2003 at 11:50am

Hey Tina - My oldest is 8 and I STILL have to tell him to go take a shower!!

Come to think of it....My husband has to be reminded he stinks once in awhile LOL

Hee hee Tina - You are an aquired taste...I get you. DOn't worry bout it.

P.S....does anyone think this Arch94 person might have a tank with "toads" in it at home? hmmmm

jacqui

Posted By: DaveDecker
Date Posted: Oct 31, 2003 at 8:31pm

"d (,% `($ a d`
Tina, please refrain from personal insults. It's okay to have contrary opinions, but they should be expressed politely. And please try to avoid straying too far from the topic.

arch94 wrote:
As much as I agree with ya, better be careful or almighty D.D. will start preaching at you with 10 or 12 posts on the subject.

Better yet, I could just delete your post. But I won't.

Gord wrote:
Karen/Dave: shouldn't Lyris and I qualify for a plaque or something? Or at least a lock of Karen's gorgeous hair!

Sorry Gord, but that will not be happening. But thank you for your ongoing participation.

Anyway, I'm with you, Caden's mama. You have my sympathy. Otherwise, I don't know what to add that hasn't already been expressed so well by many others. Let us know how things go for Caden on the hair front.

Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Oct 31, 2003 at 9:54pm

Jacqui, thanks for "getting" me!

I'm sorry Dave, I'll try not to insult anyone, even saps-(oops! sorry)-.

You notice though Dave how I never insult you sweetie.
Maybe your just my type big guy.

I know you like long haired ladies Dave but you've never been with this short haired temptress! I'm a tigress!-(tee hee!)-

4!,!

Posted By: Grace912
Date Posted: Oct 31, 2003 at 11:25pm

I just have to say that last night's Friends episode reminded me of this thread in a way. While Amy was babysitting Emma, she took her to get her ears pierced, and when Rachel saw, she was not pleased. The issue wasn't so much that Rachel didn't want Emma to get her ears pierced, but that it is not Amy's decision to make. I just had to put that out there, because I couldn't help but think of this thread.!,) A( Had%p (%2$ ` ) 4`p $(!$ )-% !-%,$ ,bb

Posted By: uzma
Date Posted: Nov 1, 2003 at 4:36am

Hmmm - so you have never insulted DD............??????

Tina wrote (Feedback/Suggestions board, "Is this site slowing down" thread):-

o run along Uzma back to your little sissy long hair friends, Dave Decker and the rest of the little old long haired hippies that you hang out with

This is funny - but is it insulting? That depends on your perception of "sissy" and "little old" "hippy".

Gotcha Tina

), R '. `p %

Posted By: duke
Date Posted: Nov 1, 2003 at 5:09am

Grace, could you add how EMMA reacted to the whole thing? Was she glad to have her ears pierced or did she resist etc?

It disgusts me that some people get their daughters' ears pierced without their permission, even while they're still babies. Your kids are not your property. Pierce your own ears as much as you want, get a one-inch wide stud shoved through your nose if you're so disposed, but leave your childrens' bodies alone until they decide for themselves whether or not they to go through with getting their ears pierced.

Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Nov 1, 2003 at 11:08am

Oh c'mon Uzi, you know I like long haired men and women.

The hippies? My mom was a hippie of sorts.
In a way I'm a hippie.

I like some of the hippie era classic rock music. I smoked my share of marijuana-(not recently)- I own some miniskirts, and I have pierced ears and nostrils. That's pretty hippie isn't it!
I don't know if I'm a hippie, but I do know I'm hip!

4!,!

Posted By: DaveDecker
Date Posted: Nov 1, 2003 at 8:37pm

LOL. Good catch, Uzi.

I certainly don't trust two-faced messengers. And sorry tina, but whether or not you are actually being honest, your "sweetie" message seems designed purely to curry favor. It'll take awhile -- and good reason -- to favorably affect my impression of your participation here.

Posted By: Grace912
Date Posted: Nov 1, 2003 at 8:45pm

They didn't actually show Emma getting her ears pierced. Amy brings Emma into Central Perk, I'm assuming a couple of hours later, and says that she has a surprise for Rachel, and then she takes Emma's hat off, revealing newly pierced, still-red ears. Emma herself seemed quite indifferent to the whole thing, at least at that point in time. However, we don't know how she felt at the time that she had them pierced.!,) A( Had%p (%2$ ` ) 4`p $(!$ )-% !-%,$ ,bb

Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Nov 2, 2003 at 12:31am

Dave, I'm not trying to curry favor with you or other men who write here, I'm just trying to get laid-(tee hee!!!

)-

Actually I'm pregnant with my second child at the moment -(due in April)- so I'm really not trying to pick anyone up.
I'm not being devious Dave. Some of what I write is just for fun. I'm just being silly.
No offense intended.

4!,!

Posted By: Gord
Date Posted: Nov 2, 2003 at 9:54am

Tina, the lesbian, is pregnant?

I think it's time to post a photo or people might start thinking you're really a guy who is pretending to be a pregnant lesbian (and former call girl). In fact, a photo of you with Kathy Ann would be perfect.

Posted By: Laine1998
Date Posted: Nov 2, 2003 at 10:10am

Gord,
I have to agree on the photo. I've been very curious for a while now to see the two together.

As for Tina's pregnancy, I think it is her ex-husband's child. I vagely remember reading that elsewhere in the hair forum.

Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Nov 2, 2003 at 11:23am

I'm not a lesbian Gord, I'm bisexual. I still have a relationship with my ex-husband, we are close. It's his child I'm pregnant with. We have been trying for over a year to have another kid.

We don't have the scanner or whatever you call it on our computer to put photos up.
If we get it, I will post a picture.4!,!

Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Nov 2, 2003 at 11:31am

What do you look like Gord?
How old a man are you?4!,!

Posted By: DaveDecker
Date Posted: Nov 2, 2003 at 3:43pm

Again, we're going way off topic, here...

about time to wrap up this discussion, then?

Posted By: Gord
Date Posted: Nov 2, 2003 at 6:47pm

Originally Posted By: Brent E from San Francisco

" `($ @" p @ `2OK, but how many of them claim to be former hookers? How many of them claim to be in relationships, but make suggestive sexual comments about every other female that gets discussed? I just thought it would be nice to see the woman who has raised my curiosity, just like it's great to see every other woman who has posted a photo on her icon -- especially those with such gloriously long hair! If Tina posts a photo, we'll be able to see if she's is having a great hair day as well. (See? Back on a hair topic!)

Long hair rocks!

Posted By: Gord
Date Posted: Nov 2, 2003 at 6:52pm

`` $' p($ a ` ,Ahh, the old misirection play. I think Dallas wrapped up its football victory over Tampa Bay today with a misdirection play.

Feel free to perform a search on my name, Tina. I've said plenty about my life over these many months. Like your M.O., however, who knows how much of it is actually true. I will tell you that I'm not a pregnant bisexual who used to be a call girl. Take that to the bank.

Long hair rocks!

Hugs & kisses,
Gord

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