Some of you AREN'T going to like this!

> I won't deny that you have the same right as anyone> else to post your opinions, but you're passing off all> your hair fantasies as fact!!! And what really bothers> me is that some people actually believe you! I will> not name names, but I've received e-mail from a couple> of women who corresponded with you who said you> encouraged them to get buzzcuts for their long hair!Ah yes, Mark's incarnation of his "BALD WOMAN" persona...> Hey, fantasy is great. I love creating various> fantasies myself, but I'm not so deluded to think that> my fantasies are real. Mark, if you honestly believe> all these wild hair tales you post here, then I am> very worried.....I'm not Mark, and I don't know Mark personally, but I'm guessing that Mark doesn't believe the tales he posts here. Rather, I imagine that he posts largely to elicit impassioned reactions of one sort or another.Dave

Gee Diane!You mention Karen and Jeff's rules so much, you sound like it's the end of the world if this board shuts down.I don't see anyone flaming here-Jena and whoever else are allowed to say what's on their mind. You are always telling us how proud of yourself you are for speaking up and saying what's on your mind..and you certainly do that a lot..so why can't someone else?Oh, and "Roxanne"-who sounds suspiciously like "Mark" (The word "Ladies" and wrong punctuation give it away)I think you're incorreect in saying that Jena has a problem with anyone else's thoughts and opinions that differ from hers.From what I have seen here, if you're going to say that about one person (and I personally don't agree with that remark)say it about EVERYONE that DOES get uptight over not so agreeable statements about long hair, too.I know I said in the past that I would not respond to your posts anymore Diane, but after reading your posts here and on the other new thread, it just begged for me to respond.HollyHolly

Like JerkyFlea and others have said it comes down to credibility. If Mark isn't sure whether he is married or single, then can you believe anything else he says? If he isn't sure whether he's married or single, then are any of his opinions or views stated really what he believes or are they contrived to illict a particular response?Jeff.

I've got to include the title in my response...>And do everyone beleive everything everyone says all the>time Jerkyflea?Nope, sure don't. However, if I'm making a point and giving examples, I make darn sure that what I'm saying is accurate. Otherwise, if folks find out I'm making stuff up, they won't know what to believe.> I will still say so what.This coming from the woman that accused me of not reading posts correctly and making false allegations against herself and others. Good to know on which side I fall of your double standard of credibility.> I guess some of us haven't> taken Karen or Jeff seriously about not torching> people. YOu should know better Jerkyflea.Unbelievable. I think it's pretty darn obvious what I wrote wasn't anywhere close to a flame, just a statement of why Mark's changing stories impact how seriously his input is taken.JerkyFleaRelated Link:JerkyFlea's Celebrity Hair Spray

> No but I enjoy this web site and as others I would> hate that it would get to the point that we wouldn't> respect their wishes and I took those wishes> seriously. Did you? ( Diane)Well, I don't think anyone here can accuse me of being a troublemaker, so the answer to that is yes. I was just saying, that it seems lately that every time someone says something that is a liitle stronger in opinion than normal, or thinks that somebody is being a troll, but really aren't making any comments that will make Jeff and Karen re-think continuing the board, you get worried about it, and ask them to stop. As was proved in your absence, "Mark/Roxanne" was a phony, so Jena was right in her comments. I do understand your inclination to take the what we might say "less-popular" person's side, but sometimes they are so obviously "trollish" it amazes some of us that others keep believeing the person's for real. This Mark/Roxanne was so blatently obvious-well, it's been proven so enough said.> Wow did it speak to you Hollly? lolYes, and it said this needs commenting on from somebody.>You couldn't resist. lol I don't have that problem. I only >read this because you asked me.Wow! YOU?? don't have that problem?? That's FUNNY!As to the "because you asked me" comment? I needn't and shouldn't have asked, because no one EVER needs to ask you read any comments to you-you scan thoroughly and find them well enough.> Have a nice hair day Hollly.Thank you, I will-and will continue to be amused by that funny remark-you can resist-that's a hot one!Holly

> Jerkyflea it seems that are some people on this baord> that really want others respect each other and I am> one.Really Diane?> I don't care to see a gang up on anyone.Bull.> When is the last time you defended somone from being> ganged up?When you tried to get him to publically declare who it was that asked him if your story about being called up by a stalker was true, and he would not reveal it either publically or privately-and you went ballistic. My dear, we both know our history and for you to say that YOU were stalked seemed incredible to me. Especially the part about being called up???? That's right, it was me who wrote to Jerkyflea asking if it was true, as I had misread your message(as others commonly do with your writing-not to knock your use of English, but I'm just stating as fact that it can be misinterpreted or READ wrong at first reading)and thought it could be verified by Jerkyflea. So he was protecting me from an onslaught of verbal abuse from you and instead it was heaped upon him, as I'm sure you recall.So since you are intimating publically that Jerkyflea has no honor (and that you do), I am stating publically that he certainly has defended me in the past.Holly

If Jeff doesn't pull this post, I'll be amazed...> If I am the only one that stands up with that belief> that Mark should be treated with kindness then let it> be that way. If I believe in him or not is not the> issue. I just don't want to see another gang up.Golly, so no one can call into question the credibility of another poster or oppose his or her opinion because that would be ganging up on them? I'll make a note in my Hair Politics Posting Rule Book. The things you learn...> The only reason I mentioned my stalker situation is to> help other women and I did because a few did respond> to me. I had nothing else to gain only remembring the> whole thing.Then why did you bring it up? You're the one who extrapolated the point of haircut videos encouraging men to stalk and harass long haired women. No where else in that discussion was anything along those lines even broached.> If you Holly would have approached me directly I would> have told you to help you if you need help. Do you> need help?Speaking of not reading posts. I'm not even going to attempt to explain this to you again since I've done it six or seven times and Holly just gave it her best shot. The only harassing stalker-like behavior she has had to deal with was yours. So, why would she ask you for help? (Sorry Holly)> Bacially between you and me I already knew it was you> that emailed Jerkyflea. It didn't much to figure that> one out.Ah, then that would explain the multiple emails I received personally and just as many posts to the board demanding to know wrote me and insulting my integrity for not revealing it to you. Nice sleuthing there, Nancy Drew.Tired of this whole thing and since ignoring you won't make you go away,JerkyFleaRelated Link:JerkyFlea's Celebrity Hair Spray

I would guess Nicky Clark likes shorter styles because you then need to buy more styling products, appliances etc. That has got to be good for his business and other hairdressers with their own range of styling products. He's just looking out for himself and trying to make sure he makes a profit. Its all down to money, just like everything else in this world.

[QUOTE=carmichael] Long-long hair may not be freakish, but it is hopelessly out of style. Some men pursue those women who dare to to fashion brave the different, most do not. Long hair can be worn out of fear, laziness or commitment and self idealism, in the end it is still seen by the largest section of current fashion as out of style as a shaved female. Until that changes, stick to your convistions and live with all of your delusions. Fashions change and what's old is new again, it's all a matter of the times.
[/QUOTE]
Could the following be said, then?

Short-short hair may not be freakish, but it is hopelessly out of style. Some men pursue those women who dare to to fashion brave the different, most do not. Short hair can be worn out of fear, laziness or commitment and self idealism, in the end it is still seen by the largest section of current fashion as out of style as a shaved female. Until that changes, stick to your convistions and live with all of your delusions. Fashions change and what's old is new again, it's all a matter of the times.


Seems this thread started nearly 4 years ago.... about a UK stylist named Nicky Clark who states that waist-length hair is freakish. I feel that attitudes such as his are freakish.

I think HIS hair's freakish. All that volume? He looks totally overstyled and out of date. How can long hair be freakish when it grows long naturally? If it grows then it is meant to. Or, does he think that he has a better idea of how humans shuld be designed than God?!
I don't think the man really has a clue.
I trust Trevor Sorbie - he has a special range just for the needs of long hair. It's really good stuff.

[QUOTE=DaveDecker]
Could the following be said, then?

Short-short hair may not be freakish, but it is hopelessly out of style. Some men pursue those women who dare to to fashion brave the different, most do not. Short hair can be worn out of fear, laziness or commitment and self idealism, in the end it is still seen by the largest section of current fashion as out of style as a shaved female. Until that changes, stick to your convistions and live with all of your delusions. Fashions change and what's old is new again, it's all a matter of the times.

[/QUOTE]

Wonderful turnabout of Carmichael's thinking Dave. The presumption that long haired people are deluded by thinking they are fashionable is an interesting conceit on his part. A long haired friend of mine told me just last week that he has no need to be in style, that is for less creative people. I can not recall the precise wording now but he was quite confident, happy, and not the least "hopelessly out of style" if the reactions of all his admirers were anything to go by.

Longhaired people can be intentionally ignorant of what passes as stylish, others know but do not choose it for themselves, and then there are people like the famous DD who set the style for others. There will always be more than one sought after style in the world at a time. Long hair, just as short-short and even no hair are, is popular and quite the trendy thing somewhere right now and most likely always will be.

[QUOTE=Carmichael] Look, It's not always the case, but a women with long hair is usually "on the market". [/QUOTE]

Just how long is the hair we are talking about here Carmichael? When it takes some time to grow that hair it sounds like quite a lot of time for a woman to be unattached if between relationships especially when there can be a factor of cutting shorter when a relationship ends. If your theory is supportable at all, and this seems doubtful, it would be more likely an age issue than anything else. The trend is for women to go shorter as they age, just as it is more likely for a younger woman to be single than an older one.

I can honestly say I see maybe five or ten percent of women who can successfully pull off long hair, and that would be the women whose hair is naturally very thick and in such excellent health that it's even thick towards the ends (those scraggly, thin ends most women get are really disgusting!). And since long hair is so heavy, it just pulls itself out flat, where shorter hair looks fuller and bouncier, so honestly I'd say even the women whose hair can be long and still look healthy would look better with short hair. Not to mention it wouldn't hide her face so much, so you could actually see if her face were beautiful, rather than seeing nothing but a "Cousin Itt"-like mass of hair. Beautiful women should have no need to hide behind their hair like that. *laughs* What about if I say all the ugly women should have long hair, then, and short hair for all the women with beautiful faces we'd actually want to see?
(A ridiculous joke of an answer in response to a whole ridiculous joke of a thread, actually. . .)

Kuroneko, I noticed that you have a slight fringe in your photograph. Surely, when I pull my hair up into a high ponytail, and then twist it into a bun on top of my head, I have more face, ear and nape on show?

I don't agree with everything you say, but it is refreshing to see someone on this site who is capable of seeing when a thread has gone a little too far, and started to turn into a joke.

Might I also add that I have long-long hair by most standards (wrist length) which is full to the ends (plaits stay at a constant thickness, despite slight layers), glossy (at times you can see recognisable reflections down the length of it) and far from flat, lifeless or dull.

My hair is long because I want it to be, and will never be short because fashion dictates it should be. That is not to say that everyone with short hair is a fashion sheep, or that some people don't look nice with short hair, I'm just saying that it is possible to have luscious long locks that don't look icky.

[QUOTE=Bill W] Men like slender, friendly, long haired ladies.
[/QUOTE]

I'd kindly like to disagree, because this statement is far too general. Most cultures prefer women with healthy curves in the right places. Hair preferences vary from culture to culture, as well as person to person.

[QUOTE=Kuroneko] I can honestly say I see maybe five or ten percent of women who can successfully pull off long hair, and that would be the women whose hair is naturally very thick and in such excellent health that it's even thick towards the ends (those scraggly, thin ends most women get are really disgusting!).
[/QUOTE]

Now is this an honest *truth* or honest *opinion*?

I am betting those women are not too concerned that they do not look attractive to you, not when thay have so many admirers out there, or perhaps a favored one in particular. Long haired women will never lack for suitors.

The most important thing about a person's hair is how it makes them feel. Others are free to disagree with how someone else "should" look yet it takes nothing away from the validity of the hair wearers opinion. The person that thinks they look good does look good whatever their hair looks like. Confidence will always be attractive.

[QUOTE=Bill W.] If I see a women with straggly ends or dirty hair, I understand that a good shampoo and conditioning or a few snips AT THE ENDS, is all that is necessary to look good or even beatiful. As a man who admires long hair on a woman, I would agree that some women go too long between having their ends trimmed. [/QUOTE]

There seem to be a lot of limiting shouldn't and shoulds floating about out there that people buy into. It is a shame to miss out on seeing the beauty already all around. Just as all women are not out to look good to the short hair admirers, know that meeting Bill W.'s standards of trimmed beauty are never given priority, or likely any thought at all, by a large segment of the population.

Be cautious, when a person seeks to improve others to their liking, they open themselves up to the same critical eye of their beholders. I suspect there is a great deal of alterations people would seek to make in order to "fix" any of us to their specific liking. Tact usually prevents these free comments quite handily.

[QUOTE=Bill W] Gormlaith, I am not trying to establish the standards for long hair women. I would want to determine how often a women should trim her ends, wash her hair or whay conditioner to use.

.........

But as you mention, beauty is only skin deep.

[/QUOTE]

Interesting, so your non-standards for beauty are trimming, washing, and conditioner use. These are still optional things, some more so than others. Just how would these needs be determined anyway? Based on her desires for her hair or your own opinions on what hair "should" look like?

Additionally, I don't even know that I believe beauty is only skin deep. The hair that looks ragged to you can look stunning to another, no need to include internal factors to mitigate the hair's appearance. Uncut hair can be so very beautiful, trupming a fresh cut to my eyes. Neither of us is wrong, these are just opinions about what we like but to present them as what others should live by is conceit.

[QUOTE=Kuroneko] ... hair is naturally very thick and in such excellent health that it's even thick towards the ends (those scraggly, thin ends most women get are really disgusting!).
[/QUOTE]
So being a man, it's a darn good thing that I have scraggly thin ends.
[QUOTE=Kuroneko] And since long hair is so heavy, it just pulls itself out flat
[/QUOTE]
What about those of us who have straight hair? My hair is straight no matter what its length.

How would you know that long hair is heavy, Kuroneko? Have you ever had long hair?

My hair is not heavy, and it's yards long. I think the whole "heavy hair" criticism is a myth designed to encourage conversion to short hair.
[QUOTE=Kuroneko] where shorter hair looks fuller and bouncier
[/QUOTE]Not in my case, but maybe that's because I'm a man and not a woman...?
[QUOTE=Kuroneko] so honestly I'd say even the women whose hair can be long and still look healthy would look better with short hair.
[/QUOTE]
A reflection of your preference for short hair.
[QUOTE=Kuroneko] Not to mention it wouldn't hide her face so much, so you could actually see if her face were beautiful, rather than seeing nothing but a "Cousin Itt"-like mass of hair. Beautiful women should have no need to hide behind their hair like that.
[/QUOTE]
I was going to comment like enfys has but she beat me to the punch.

The woman who has long hair has versatility! She can wear her hair up, exposing her entire face, ears and neck... or, she can let her hair down (and hide the ears, and most of the neck... creating a sense of intrigue among men who love it long. Never underestimate the value and power of intrigue.