Cultish Militants on the Long Hair Board!!!
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Category: Long Hair Happenings
Forum Name: Long Hair Support
Forum Description: Growing it long takes commitment and support.
URL: /forum_posts.php?TID=691
Printed Date: Jan 27, 2025 at 5:24am
Topic: Cultish Militants on the Long Hair Board!!!
Posted By: uzma
Subject: Cultish Militants on the Long Hair Board!!!
Date Posted: Jul 4, 2003 at 3:27pm
Hi Everyone
I was just over on the Short Hair board and guess what
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Uzi
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Replies: 94
Posted By: uzma
Date Posted: Jul 4, 2003 at 3:27pm
Hi Everyone
I was just over on the Short Hair board and guess what ), R '. `p %
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Posted By: SuperGrover
Date Posted: Jul 4, 2003 at 4:26pm
Oh, I thought we were in a battle against the rest of the world. You mean we're not? I guess my cultish militant self will go put away the ammunition.
I would think of something else clever to say, but my inertia and lack of imagination are interfering.
I guess I'll just throw my hair into a ponytail and go take a nap. !) ic a p`` -& `b . @p )2 ,-$ ! ! $ -$ ` ,
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Posted By: Kintaro
Date Posted: Jul 4, 2003 at 4:33pm
I must be lazy, I tend to not use hairbands (from Goody, so it's also in a way to try to boycott :P ) but bandannas to tie my hair back in a tail. And I'm starting to enjoying tying it much further from the head.
But if I get a gun, I'll take part in this war/militia/guerrilla unit they're portraying us to be.
My feminine side isn't talking to my masculine side anymore, they took part in a suicide pact. All I have left is me. (! A al` eb (% $b` /6(bb !.$ ,-$! -- % ( Bp $
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Posted By: Kintaro
Date Posted: Jul 4, 2003 at 4:38pm
A reminder to fortify our position.
http://talk.hairboutique.com/forum/viewthread.asp?forum=AMB%5FAP881778452&id=4658&sr1=shibasaki&sr2=&ExMth=no#post4670 - You do not say NO to a person with long hair, a successful acting career and a gun, especially when it'S raised and pointing at you.
This picture fit the "Short VS Long stereotype they want to put us in. I kinda like this stereotype though. (! A al` eb (% $b` /6(bb !.$ ,-$! -- % ( Bp $
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Posted By: uzma
Date Posted: Jul 4, 2003 at 4:58pm
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Lets try these on for size ), R '. `p %
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Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Jul 4, 2003 at 5:44pm
YOU SILLY PEOPLE, PLEASE!!!
I am a short haired woman who really likes many styles of long hair on men and women.
Most of us over on the Short Hair board are VERY cool with long haired folks.
No Middle East conflicts, plesae, between the short hairs and long hairs.
A great man, a great musician and singer who was one of my mother's idols once said in a song, "All we are saying, is give peace a chance"!!!   4!,!
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Posted By: uzma
Date Posted: Jul 4, 2003 at 5:53pm
Hey Tina
Didn't that same great guy also write another song....I think it went something like this..but I'm not sure...
Imagine there's no hair-cuts
It's easy if you try,
No salon below us,
Above us only hair,
Imagine lengthy tresses
growing longer every day...
Just havin' some fun, Tina .
(Hey!! Hope you're not a spy for the other camp!!! Kidding) ), R '. `p %
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Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Jul 4, 2003 at 6:03pm
Even though I wear my hair short Uzma, I enjoy "getting it on" too much with long haired men and women to have any prejudice towards long haired people.
A sexy person is a sexy person, regardless of their hair length.
.....and I am a lovergirl not a fighter!!!4!,!
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Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Jul 4, 2003 at 6:06pm
Above us only hair..... What????
I'll pass on that one Uzma, I like the nice blue sky like we had here in the midwest this beautiful summer day-(not too hot today, we went to a fourth of July parade and then had an afternoon picnic!)-4!,!
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Posted By: 3katz
Date Posted: Jul 4, 2003 at 6:22pm
I prefer the label *infidel* myself; I already know I'm paranoid ( and especially distrustful of stylists), vain, lazy and hopelessly out of touch!
I can't say if my girly-girl self-image is impacted by the length of my hair one way or the other, so I'll have to think about that one. I wish cheap had been included to round out the list.
The poor misguided soul who wrote that has not had long hair, or else had some terrible experience with it, methinks.
You made my day, Uzma! That's too funny!
Jean0!!$
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Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Jul 4, 2003 at 6:50pm
3Katz,
Well I'm a little on the "girly-girl" side of things myself, so I don't think long haired women have a monopoly on that-(and nothing wrong with being a girly-girl...... So I don't know much about cars, baseball and football, so what!)-
As far as the person who wrote that statement that Uzma quoted, I believe it was one of the guys on the Short Hair Board who just LOVES women with short hair!-(tee hee!).I think I know which guy it is.
You will have to excuse him, it is his love of short haired women that gives him such a peculiar view of long haired women!4!,!
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Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Jul 4, 2003 at 7:16pm
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Nice hair Amanda!4!,!
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Posted By: uzma
Date Posted: Jul 4, 2003 at 7:35pm
Posted By: DaveDecker
Date Posted: Jul 4, 2003 at 7:35pm
Hi everyone!
SuperGrover, you are so funny!
Uzma, I love your re-wording of "Imagine." And I love the "labels" you propose.
Good for you, Kintaro.
Jean, the guy who wrote those comments has very short hair.
I did read those comments on the short hair board several days ago. I think he was irritated by the comments on their board by of one or more of "us."
Dare I bother to rebut his comments, if for nothing more than fun?
Cultish? No. On the contrary, we're generally the societal outcasts. If there's a "cult" of hair length in this society, it is more promoting of short hair than long, even though long hair (on women, anyway) is somewhat more popular these days than it has been in the recent past.
Militant? Perhaps... if only because our choice to have long hair is constantly under siege by members of the cult who demand we surrender our long hair. Every time I wear my hair loose I receive solicitations on behalf of loks uv luv. In recent years, when I've gone on job interviews, I've either been dismissed due simply to my hair (regardless of the impressive resume), or requested to cut my hair to improve my chances for landing a specific job. A couple of weeks ago a woman actually told me that my hair was "out of date." Like I give a darn about conforming to what some stranger thinks is "in style." At least in my encounters, I don't believe the motivation of these others is jealousy or hate. But I have heard numerous encounters of others who have valid reasons to believe their uncomplimentary encounters were based on jealousy.
Re: the "laziness" charge... having hair which can be easily "done" is not a bad thing. Those with short or long hair can be "lazy," if they so choose. A criticism that cuts across hair length, so to speak.
"Lack of imagination?" Ridiculous. In my life I've known about two women with short hair who enjoyed styling their hair in a variety of ways... and countless women with long hair who style their hair in a variety of ways.
On the list of factors that women use to choose their hair length, consideration for what men (most men, or specific types) might like or do like would not be surprising. So what? Women can choose their preferred hair length for any number of reasons. Who would presume to invalidate any of those reasons?
And along similar lines, it is also not the responsibility of women to style their hair to make it "look good" in the eyes of others. If/when women choose to make such efforts, that's great, but it's okay if they don't, too.
As my friend Jennifer Eve has said, "long hair enhances the gender of the wearer."
IMO, a woman is more confident in her femininity if she isn't afraid to embrace it.
"She can't hide behind her hair" ... huh? Yeah, those braids, buns and ponytails sure do hide the face... NOT! Duh!
And keeping women in "old-fashioned roles and expectations"... are "beauty" salons all across the land.
It's fair to say that I disagree with most everything quoted by that poster on the short hair board. Of course, should that come as a surprise to anyone here?
Today is Independence Day.... and, by extension, a day to celebrate independence from salons, and the dogma of the short-haired majority.
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Posted By: uzma
Date Posted: Jul 4, 2003 at 7:53pm
Thanks for posting the link, Amanda.
So...gentlemen prefer long-haired brunettes...
alright..Florida, here I come!!!!!
Kinda sucks on the long-haired guy front though.
Huh, if they had used a pic of Dave PlaidPants the results would have been positive!!
Cheers ), R '. `p %
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Posted By: uzma
Date Posted: Jul 4, 2003 at 7:58pm
 ave said:
a woman actually told me that my hair was "out of date." Like I give a darn about conforming to what some stranger thinks is "in style." |
Well Dave, the next time someone makes a statement like that, just inform them that it appears that good manners and good taste are also out-of-date and unstylish in certain sectors of society.
Also warn them that the Grow-long Guerillas will not tolerate any re-buff to their leader.
We only issue one warning due to our inertia...... ), R '. `p %
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Posted By: Kintaro
Date Posted: Jul 4, 2003 at 8:57pm
and in my case, zero. when people put their foot in their mouth, I shove it down their throat.
--- modus operandi of the Growth Guerilla assasination squad. Members : 1. Answers to DD, Uzi and to the delicious taste of Jolt Cola. (! A al` eb (% $b` /6(bb !.$ ,-$! -- % ( Bp $
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Posted By: DaveDecker
Date Posted: Jul 4, 2003 at 8:58pm
Love your manifesto, Uzma. And you are right, apparently manners had gone out of style for the woman who "offered" her opinion. At the moment, I was in too good a mood otherwise to respond in kind. Luckily for her.
Actually, from what I can tell, Florida isn't too bad on the long hair front, for women or men. Others who live here (or have visited) can confirm.
I see I've been nominated as militia leader. Let it be known that I do not support or sympathize with any terrorist organizations.
"We" might issue innumerable warnings due to inertia.
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Posted By: Rod
Date Posted: Jul 4, 2003 at 9:52pm
Hmmm. I don't read this board much and have never posted here. When I noticed the subject, I was suspicious. I suppose I should be offended that Uzma has chosen to take something I've written and reposted it out of context. And without even attributing the quote to me! Is that plagarism?
But I seem to be a popular subject. 18 posts in five hours!!! How many people can write something and have that many people respond? Maybe I can give GW a run for his money.
I'll attempt to suppress my outrage. Firstly, I enjoy those who had good fun with my comments. If you can't laugh at yourself, there's something amiss. If you can't laugh at me, there's something really wrong with you.
The post was made in response to a post by Jennifer savaging short hair and those that wear it. Not only was the post negative and combative, but it had no place on a short hair board.
From reading some of your comments, you do sound like an awful lot like a militant cult convinced the world wants you to cut your hair and that you're holding out by banding together in your small corner of the world. Nothing wrong with feeling that way, but you should know how you come off.
I have numerous friends who have long hair. I've probably discussed hair with many of them. No one has ever told me about outside pressure to cut their hair. A few who've talked about cutting their hair short, or actually done it, [Shudder. Should I have mentioned that here?] have never talked about being pressured.
My friend Allison has been on the fence for awhile. I mentioned that if she cuts it, she should donate her ponytail to Wigs For Kids. She never heard of doing that. Maybe not all long haired people are bombarded. And no, she doesn't have to give the ponytail she no longer wants to charity, but it never hurts to hear how you can do something charitible.
My post was in response to Jennifer's remarks that it was easy to chop off hair, but that long hair "requires far more patience and dedication" than short hair. You guys on this board are devoted to your hair. You probably give it patience and dedication. Surely, you can't believe that all people with long hair do the same? That there aren't people out there who have long hair out of laziness, inertia, a lack of imagination, or because they feel they'll be more attractive to the opposite sex?
I've met many people who have long hair for those reasons. Personally, I love long hair on people like my friend Michelle. She cares for her hair. It's gorgeous. She does things with it. It would be a shame for her cut it. Not everyone is like her. And I'm entitled to my opinion about whether I think they should keep it long. I don't have to express it to them and they don't have to listen to me if I do, but I'm entitled to it.
Whether I've had long hair or not, that doesn't mean I can't have that opinion. And yeah, I should have included poor. There are a lot of people in their early 20's that don't get their hair cut for lack of money.
And come on? Everyone isn't jealous of your long hair. But I do envy your sports car, house, spouse, and job.
I now know I'm long hair board enemy #1 and my words have brought you all together just as any great conspiracy leader's words will unite the band of rebels. Keep fighting the good fight. Stop those evil scissor holders!!! And I welcome all beautiful long haired women to seduce me into seeing the error of my ways.
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Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Jul 4, 2003 at 10:06pm
NO ROD!!! DON'T BE A TRAITOR!!!
No long haired woman can seduce you Rod, you must stay with your people! You must stay with a short haired woman!
Please Rod, go back to the Short Haired Board where you belong, where there are people who care about you, and what you write to us! Don't sell out or be tricked by these devious long hairs!!!
Rod, do dogs and cats breed together! Of course not! Stay with your kind Rod!
See ya on the Short Hair board!4!,!
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Posted By: Rod
Date Posted: Jul 4, 2003 at 10:10pm
Tina, ssshhh!!! Don't blow my cover. I must let them think I can be seduced over to their side in order for me to infiltrate them. Better to bring them down from within.
Right now, I'm dating a long-haired woman. I'm sure the long haired cultists are getting chills down their spines thinking what evil thoughts I could plant in her head.
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Posted By: uzma
Date Posted: Jul 4, 2003 at 10:19pm
Welcome to our newbie, Rod .
I'm just having some fun here, Rod. I did not mean to offend you, or Kuroneko whose comment I also included.
I did not post your names as I didn't want any personal finger-pointing to start.
We have some things in common, Rod. I don't agree with "savaging short hair and those who wear it" either.
Some of us here, myself included, have been hounded into having short hair and have made our escape from that oppression.
I do believe I sound militant on this board sometimes because I have such strong feelings about growing long hair.
But I do believe that I and the rest of the (much saner) posters here are open-minded and respectful of the choices of others to do whatever they wish with their hair.
And as for your little challenge....or should I say fantasy...about being seduced by beautiful long-haired women.....I like that. I REALLY like that!!!
Watch out Tina...you've got competition - LOL  .
See ya, Rod darling,
Uzi
(Mata Hari of the Growth Guerillas: Temptress squad) ), R '. `p %
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Posted By: uzma
Date Posted: Jul 4, 2003 at 10:24pm
| ight now, I'm dating a long-haired woman. I'm sure the long haired cultists are getting chills down their spines thinking what evil thoughts I could plant in her head. |
Resistance is futile, Rod.
Your lady is one of us...you think you can take her over to the "dark" side....no way lover-man...she's working on you, babe.
See, your already posting here...that's step 1 of the MasterPlan.
Quick, someone...hide the Manifesto!!!!! ), R '. `p %
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Posted By: Rod
Date Posted: Jul 4, 2003 at 11:02pm
Uzma, I wasn't offended. It was a little disconcerting though, especially since you presented my words out of context and didn't make me aware.
You definitely don't offend me though. You responded to my post with a couple of amusing posts that made me laugh. You aren't taking any of this too seriously. You also recognize that you can be perceived as a being militant and cultish. Lastly, I believe I read in one of your posts that you were forced to have short hair by your ex-husband. Correct me if I'm wrong.
After going through that, you should be militant about your hair. You should grow it if you choose to do so. If having short hair brings up painful memories, keep it long. But don't keep it long just to spite him. Do whatever you do for you.
As for the woman I'm dating, we've only gone out a few times. No seducing yet, but I'm open to it when the time's right. We've never talked about hair. I think about hair a lot, but it hasn't come up. Don't know her feelings on hair, hers is a little past her shoulders, whether she's had it shorter or longer, or what her thoughts are for the future. If the situation is right, I will try to tempt her to the dark side. Just tempt, not demand, force, or anything else. We're not there yet and may never get that far.
I love long hair. Just love short hair more. Have since I was 12. It would take quite a girlfriend to stop me from fantasizing about her in short hair.
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Posted By: uzma
Date Posted: Jul 5, 2003 at 3:36am
Hi Rod
You haven't spoken to your girlfriend about your hair-thing. Wow. Having read your postings on the other board which show your enthusiasm for "s" hair (sorry, I find myself unable to say the word today), that must take "some" self-control.
I guess it's all about timing and preparation.
*makes mental note not to under-estimate the enemy*
My ex was my ex-boyfriend of 9 years, not husband (I don't agree with the concept of marriage, for myself). What a sicko and stupid me for putting up with that crap. Now I am searching for a long-hair lover-man who will accept my militant self with glee and take pleasure in my ever longer hair .
And when I find him, I'm going to break his legs so that he can't run away.
*makes mental note to never let the enemy under-estimate the Growth Guerillas*)
I do apologise for taking your and Kuroneko's words out of context. I considered that a necessary device to keep the original post tight and punchy.
And I intended to send you both a formal invitation to this board to view our responses, once I had a substantial amount.
After all, we long haired folks may be lazy initially, but our old-fashioned manners win out in the end....
It's been a pleasure to recieve...what is it...your 3rd posting on our  Heavenly Hair board, which is full of bright and beautiful long-haired gals just waiting you wrap you in their tresses and take all the darkness away from your mind .
And you'll be in excellent company as the males in our little troupe are so remarkablly intelligent - the physical inertia causes a dramatic increase in mental activity, you know.
So come on over any time you feel like, Rod dear.
If you ever care to explore the Light side...I'll be waiting. ), R '. `p %
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Posted By: T
Date Posted: Jul 5, 2003 at 5:07am
it was so much fun reading your postings!!! thank you! ,% Pa
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Posted By: Beatnik Guy
Date Posted: Jul 5, 2003 at 11:49am
Uzma wrote on the SHB :
"And the guys here are very forthcoming with their appreciation of short hair on women....sigh...I wish we had more of that on the Long Hair board..... "
Hmmmm, seems we need to do better. Uzma, you have beautiful hair, ok?
Chris
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Posted By: SuperGrover
Date Posted: Jul 5, 2003 at 12:22pm
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But we haven't seen Uzi's hair! Though I'm sure it's beautiful. Post a picture already! (No pressure.) !) ic a p`` -& `b . @p )2 ,-$ ! ! $ -$ ` ,
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Posted By: Jennifer
Date Posted: Jul 5, 2003 at 2:40pm
>>>The post was made in response to a post by Jennifer savaging short hair and those that wear it
Yes, it
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Posted By: uzma
Date Posted: Jul 5, 2003 at 5:48pm
Hello Chris.......fellow Brit.
You are a real gentleman, but whereas you haven't seen me, I have seen you, ....and I was breathless...speechless at the....*all superlatives fail* sight of your hair.
Utterly magnificent doesn't touch it.
Maybe my hair will warrant your complimentary words one day...right now it is far from bearing the titles of "long" or "beautiful".
No one here has seen my hair yet , although I am sending two of my good friends here pics of my hair/face/body/garden/most loved parts of London by snail-mail next week.
Maybe you two can help me decide which shots are worthy to post here.
Thanks.
Love to you all,
Uzi ), R '. `p %
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Posted By: uzma
Date Posted: Jul 5, 2003 at 6:09pm
BTW, my comment on the Short Hair board wasn't me hunting for personal compliments. I don't like vanity.
What I meant to convey was that a lot of the posts on the SHB are by guys who are very vocal in their adoration of women (generally) with short cuts.
Now, most of the adoration on the Heavenly Long Hair board , I note, comes from women drooling over long haired guys.
Check out our devotion to our Head-Man Dave, the drool-fest over Hugh Jackman that Jacqui initiated and the panting over long-haired rockers started off by princessmonica.
You know what. Enough. I shouldn't complain.
I love letting guys know how handsome they are, and positively re-inforcing their choice to grow long hair. They need it and deserve it seeing as how society generally is so unaccepting of their choice.
Forget what I said on the SHB. I take it back.
I would rather compliment than be complimented.
Hope y'all are having a great week-end.
XOXO
Edit: my spelling sucks these days. ), R '. `p %
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Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Jul 5, 2003 at 6:31pm
Thanks for your B-mail Uzma. I sent you a B-mail back last night, I hope it went through and you got it.
Well I do like long hair on men and women so from time to time this little short haired woman will wander over from the Short Hair board to give you folks a compliment or two!4!,!
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Posted By: hairalways
Date Posted: Jul 6, 2003 at 8:07am
Rod, Just as you say you have seen women and men wear their hair long out of laziness, I have seen people who wear their hair short for this same reason.
I can understand your responding defensively to another posters offensive comments, but I don't understand your decision to make sweeping assumptions about the people of this board.
Uzma and Kintaro - Love what you wrote! That was beautiful about shoving a persons foot in their mouths, can I use that? Lets come up with a T-Shirt for this passionate cult! Something with lots of hair and firearms!LOL kidding - I am wierd today.
Jacqui, Loyal Soldier to the Militant Band of
Grow- Long Guerrilas
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Posted By: DaveDecker
Date Posted: Jul 6, 2003 at 1:52pm
Hi Rod...
 d ,#4 & ``de
Agreed, but do keep in mind that one person does not necessarily represent the views of many.
"d` % @($ `bde
Seems to me all of the responses here were written in jest, with the partial exception of mine. I do feel picked on -- a lot. How would you feel if people constantly dissented about your hairstyle? I would imagine that after awhile, you'd start feeling embattled.
``&$ $P,$ d`b d2
And I've known many. Perhaps your sample is not representative of the population at large. "My" sample may not completely representational, but it is quite varied.
! `. $ R `` `e2
There's nothing wrong with making efforts to appear more attractive to the opposite gender!
Okay, I imagine there are some who have long hair who did not intentionally let it grow long. But there are definitely many who are intentionally trying to grow their hair long.
,"$ $% @.$ t``d 0
Of course, Rod. This goes without saying.
"d ($! p`bdd
I agree with you that long hair can be less expensive to maintain than short hair. Slightly more shampoo and conditioner used, less spent on haircuts... this isn't a bad thing either, and even though I can afford to spend more on haircare, I choose not to.
"d ",%$ .$ @bd`8
Some people are jealous of other's long hair. I've heard this lament frequently. I admit I have never heard someone say that they are jealous of another's short hair. Maybe because that short haircut can be had now, so there's no wait time required between the "wanting" and the "getting" of the desired hairlength... as opposed to getting long hair, when one's hair is short, which can take years.
d`& #$B& $` de*
Thank you for your contributions.
"d '$@"$ d `dd
Be careful what you wish for... you just might get it.
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Posted By: DaveDecker
Date Posted: Jul 6, 2003 at 2:18pm
"d`, &$ t ``e*
But if she isn't taking any of it seriously, wouldn't that discount the "militant" and "cultish" nature of what she wrote?
I see that Uzma is very dedicated to growing her hair long. It's a firm commitment to ignore the nay-sayers she's endured, not as some "go out and tell short-haired people they should grow their hair long" notion.
"Militant"... as in, "of the military"... and it's forced haircuts... hmm.. seems to be sort of a contradiction when used to describe growing long hair.
!p`,($ @ d``de
It's a lot easier for someone to force a haircut on another (over whom they exert control) than it is to force someone to grow long hair.
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Posted By: DaveDecker
Date Posted: Jul 6, 2003 at 2:25pm
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[QUOTE=Jennifer]
Dave, I have a great reply for you (or anyone) for when someone says your hair is
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Posted By: Rod
Date Posted: Jul 6, 2003 at 4:24pm
<>
Dave, neither you nor I have talked to enough people for it be a statistically significant sample. We haven't spoken to people selected randomly by age, race, gender, and geography. We don't have a control group. I can say that women with long hair aren't picked on for having long hair. Some, not all, men may be, but there remain stigmas of men having long hair. I don't think there should be, but there are.
<>
I'll quote one your own, Hairalways about this
< posted on 3-Jul-2003 6:54:40 AM
Uzma - I have yet to find a "long hair" afficionado in person here where I live...I mean, I have friends who wear their hair long...a few inches past shoulder if that is considered long. But I think it is just the style they happen to be wearing now. They all blowdry and color it and don't really seem to have the same reverence we have for it.>>
Most people with long hair wear it that way because they think it's attractive, their significant other does, or any number of the other reasons I site. The people on this board are a small minority dedicated to your long hair. That's where I got "cult" from. In the dictionary "cult" is defined as 'a group bound together by devotion of the same thing, person, or ideal.
<>
From reading some of the posts in this thread, it doesn't. My opinion was discounted.
<<3katz wrote: "The poor misguided soul who wrote that has not had long hair">>
Sounds like she thinks I'm only entitled to my opinion if I've had long hair. Using that theory, we can't comment on George Bush until we've been President.
<>
Then you probably only pay attention to long hair. Lots of long-haired women are jealous of short hair. Some because they don't have the guts to cut it. Some because their hair would never look like that short. Jealousy results from a great haircut regardless of length, although everyone who comments negatively isn't jealous. Being in a creative field where people are constantly giving my work thumbs or down, I know those that knock it aren't jealous. They genuinely believe my work stinks.
<>>
Then I'll keep wishing.
<<"Militant"... as in, "of the military"... and it's forced haircuts... hmm.. seems to be sort of a contradiction when used to describe growing long hair. >>
"Militant" as in "vigorously, active, aggressive or combative." The people on the long haired board can get quite vigorously combative about their long hair. You people do have a cultish militancy. Maybe you'll see where I'm coming from now that I've given the dictionary definitions.
<>
It's rare in the U.S. for a woman forced to cut her hair. It's well known that men prefer long hair. I've seen a number of times where boyfriends/husbands have suggested to girlfriends/wives that they grow their hair long. I've seen fights about haircuts. One friend of mine insists all his girlfriends grow their hair. He's not really controlling about it, just telling them what he likes. I've read accounts elsewhere in the Hair Talk website about husbands/boyfriends getting pissed or threatening stylists over haircuts.
You guys are devoted to your hair. To me, and perhaps to others, you come across with a 'cultish militancy.' Have fun with my perceptions, but don't dispute that's the image that I've gotten.
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Posted By: uzma
Date Posted: Jul 6, 2003 at 5:54pm
Posted By: DaveDecker
Date Posted: Jul 6, 2003 at 6:03pm
!t`, &$@$ p `de
Rod, you mentioned the similarity in attitudes of a group of girls who are friends. The "sample" I referred to includes women of all ages (teens to 60-something) and the results have been informally collected over the course of 30 years. I know a thing or two or five about random sampling and statistics... and from what I know of yours, it seems as though "my" sample is more representative of the populace than yours. That said, I realize it remains unproven, but it shows the extent of my conviction in my conclusion.
``. # P $ `` de(
Some, not all, women are "picked on" for having long hair... pressured to cut, from time to time. I know today many women for whom this applies.
#d`, &$P d de*
On this we agree.
< @ (,!$@.$ t```e
Rod, I'm not saying that most of women who have or are growing their hair long are intentionally doing so, just that there are many of them.
#p` %$P,$ t``` (
Agreed.
d $'0@$ d ``a2
By the same description, those at the SH board are also "cultish." The description rubs both ways, Rod.
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It should go without saying. Everybody will have their own opinon, and everybody is entitled to their own opinion. It's a truth. This isn't China or Cuba.
< 0` $" R"$ d D(
You took 3katz's quote out of context by omitting the last part of it: "... or else had some terrible experience with it." And she is just as entitled to her opinion as you are to yours.
Nobody except for GWB can comment on what it's like to be president. We can only comment on how we think he is doing as president, or what we think he thinks of it, etc. (your analogy is weak).
<"p ,,$@$ d``de
Really? I didn't know that. You know, that's the problem with some of those long-haired women, they just don't have enough CONFIDENCE in themselves to cut their hair short! That is why I love short-haired women -- because they have that confidence!
Yes, I am mocking you. Such a statement as that above is exactly of the same ilk which I see written in various short hair fora. It criticizes women for a perceived but non-existent "flaw" (the "flaw" being women's unwillingness to comply with such poster's preference for short-hair on women).
#d` % @$ ``da2
Short hair can be forced to conform to certain shapes. Hairstylists have extensive experience in this ability.
!``.$#0 "$ t``` "
In such a scenario, I don't understand the source of the jealousy. Why can't they just book an appointment with the same stylist and have it done? It seems terribly easy to do.
t`.$' $$ p`bde
Yes, some people are just mean. And others honestly intend to be "helpful," but I never perceive it that way. I've been on the receiving end of a lot of criticism, and I know of what I speak.
!``& !$ p``da2
That's different. The feedback is directly related to your being on the job. It's expected. But in social situations, especially when dealing with strangers, it is rude to tell someone you don't know that you don't like their hair.
``($!$P" p `d "
Perhaps I am militant. Maybe it has something to do with constantly being told my hair is too long, or that it is out of style, or that I should cut it and sell it, or donate it. Honestly, how would you expect me to feel? Happy as a pig in mud because people tell me they hate my hair and think I should make it go away?
"Oh, I'm so happy because someone told me that I should cut my hair off and give it away."
"It really warms me inside when people tell me that my hair is out of style."
No, I don't think so. Uzi has also mentioned the pressure she's received from people she knows about growing her hair long. We are not the only two who find ourselves in this situation. I personally know many others in the same boat. Militant? Perhaps, but I feel my attitude is warranted.
#t &$!0 ``de0
Of course, you are entitled to your opinion. Although I do not feel that the participants of either this board or the SH board are "cultish," do know that according to the definition of "cultish" that you have so kindly provided, the SH board participants would by necessity be described in the same terms.
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Posted By: uzma
Date Posted: Jul 6, 2003 at 6:37pm
Dave
I was trying to enter the Guiness Book of World Records, by posting my long response to Rod today.
However, I concede defeat.
Yours must be the longest posting in the history of HB HairTalk.
We achieved "Rod sandwich" between our mails though, which must make him feel nice and cozy here, dontcha think? ), R '. `p %
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Posted By: DaveDecker
Date Posted: Jul 6, 2003 at 6:43pm
Uzi,
You were not "defeated!" I very much enjoyed reading your response to Rod.
How about "Place?" Or "Runner-Up?" Or "First Alternate?" or "Second Place?"
I have no idea what the longest post here has been. Most of mine are fairly brief. I'm guessing Rod feels most honored to have received such lengthy responses to his most recent post here.
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Posted By: Rod
Date Posted: Jul 6, 2003 at 7:03pm
Posted By: Rod
Date Posted: Jul 6, 2003 at 7:06pm
<"p '$ 4%@a`he
Any time I can stimulate thought and incite conversation, I'm honored. I enjoy being appreciated. It's always good when what I write isn't misinterpreted, but I can't have everything.
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Posted By: uzma
Date Posted: Jul 6, 2003 at 7:22pm
I'll settle for second place, thanks Dave .
Some observations ), R '. `p %
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Posted By: DaveDecker
Date Posted: Jul 6, 2003 at 8:25pm
Gosh, we might be close to wrapping up here... might be.
!t`, &$@$ p bd *
Actually Rod, I thought you had mentioned a group of women who were friends with each other, which didn't possess a great diversity of opinions. If your personal experience is varied, I accept that.
p`($%0@$$ t``d 0
I don't doubt that there are a great variety of reasons people have for growing their hair long. I also don't claim that every such reason has been stated here.
d`$ !0 $ ````e2
I know you didn't say it. HeadBoy did. And stylists, quoted in so many women's magazines, have claimed it in decades past, as if it were some infallible truth.
d`$ # P $ `` `e(
Rod, I have NEVER, ever known anybody who did not cut their hair because they didn't have the guts to do it. Not one single person.
< @` % @ p``da2
I really do mean that.
" `.$ 0@& ``d`0
I guarantee you I will see many short styles tomorrow, and I can assure you that not one of them will tempt me to cut my hair.
I presume you hypothesize if I were dissatisfied with my hair and were contemplating whether or not a particular shortcut had sufficient "merit" to warrant serious consideration. Well, that scenario is an internal debate (within those who may have it) about the "pros" and "cons" of the feasible choices.
" `$ ' R ```a
What this means is that they acknowledge that if they are dissatisfied with the shortcut, that they understand it will be a long wait until their hair grows back to its current length. Being so hesitant is understandable.
``&$ & d`` e(
Send her here, let us talk with her and see if we can help her to rediscover her passion for long hair. Failing that, she's all yours.
" `.,% R.$ d d` The hair can be made to conform to a certain state of being (color, waviness, length/cut), but how it looks on the person and whether she or anyone else likes the way it looks are different issues. It's okay to like the way a certain style looks on someone else without wanting it for one's self, too.
#t` $!4@. d` d`
I assigned no definitions to you. But by the definition you gave for "cultish," the way you applied it to this board means that you cannot fail to apply the very same definition to any of the other boards here.
< @` $ $ " d `da"
You're in denial, Rod. There is most definitely a unity and togetherness there of short hair appreciation by the regulars. It isn't a matter of degrees. You're all there for a singular purpose.... to talk about short hair.
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Posted By: RedJen
Date Posted: Jul 9, 2003 at 8:05am
I'm going to jump into this fray to say of course stylists will say women with short hair are more confident. Short hair= more money for stylists.
I get pressured a lot about my hair (which is long, red, and in very good condition, so it's not because it looks ratty.) A lot of people out there genuinely hate long hair. Others are still bitter because they cut their own. I appreciate those who enjoy their own hair (short or long) and can also enjoy mine, even if it's different from theirs.
As for the Locks of Love, being solicited to cut my hair off and give it to them is as offensive as it would be if people approached every Lexus driver and told them to sell their car, buy a Kia, and donate the difference to charity. I'm treated as if I am selfish for not cutting my hair and donating it (despite the FACT that my hair might not even be used, but could be sold instead.) My hair is MY PROPERTY and it is not up to anyone else to determine or suggest the disposition of said property, especially when I have not expressed any interest whatsoever in divesting myself of it. (My husband says I should tell those people to grow their own hair for donation if they care that much.)
Sorry about the rant. I guess my buttons got pushed.
If there is a militant long-hair cult, sign me up. 0 -$ ac `ddb ! (4 r ,, b` ," , - %$
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Posted By: Kintaro
Date Posted: Jul 9, 2003 at 10:57am
Jen : Think about it, in the 19th century, the word was "round up the n*****s, let's cut them in half"
We're just the n*****s of today. They can't discriminate against black people legally, so they go for things that aren't legally proscribed. I mean, bashing pro-choicers isn't a hate crime, and bashing atheists in some places *cough*bible*belt*cough* doesn't count as religious discrimination because they don't have a religion o_O.
But long haired people are visible markers in society. You can't figure out if someone is a Democrat, an atheist, or a pro-choicer by looking at them. But we're visible, in the case of men, clearly a minority, in women, not sure.
The hatred from back then hasn't been suppressed with new laws, people are the same inbred idiots with the same rage as back then just in different circumstances. I'll say it in plain english without a censor. We are the niggers of today. I'd like to see one group of people as easily visibly marked in society. (! A al` eb (% $b` /6(bb !.$ ,-$! -- % ( Bp $
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Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Jul 9, 2003 at 11:30am
People can cut their hair, Blacks can't change their skin color.
Inner city Blacks have something like a 25% unemployment rate in America. I wonder what the unemployment rate of non-Blacks with long hair is?.....7% maybe.?4!,!
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Posted By: Rod
Date Posted: Jul 9, 2003 at 11:52am
People may comment on your hair. They may ask you why you don't cut it. Doesn't mean they hate your hair or hate you for having long hair. They may pressure you to cut your hair, but charities pressuring is hardly limited to Locks of Love. I get dozens of guilt-ridden appeals each week by mail and phone for my time and money.
They may be jealous of your hair, but it's self-centered to think that everyone who doesn't have long hair is jealous. I've done things most people haven't, and some would like to do, but that doesn't mean anyone's jealous.
Long-haired people aren't a descriminated minority. Talk to me the next time people burn down your places of worship or start killing you because you have long hair. That happens every day to Jews, Blacks, gays, and others.
People make judgements based on your hair. It happens to people who don't have long hair. Women with short hair often get insulting "dyke" comments and I have a bald friend who has been told he's a skinhead because he's bald.
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Posted By: Kintaro
Date Posted: Jul 9, 2003 at 12:00pm
but you see, it's still a choice we make.
Long hair
Religion
Our political leaning
Our stane on abortion
These are some things you can change, but NO ONE has the right to tell you to change this, or discriminate based on personal choices. My previous point stands though. It's still the largest visible marker that isn't proscribed by law to discriminate against. (! A al` eb (% $b` /6(bb !.$ ,-$! -- % ( Bp $
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Posted By: Rod
Date Posted: Jul 9, 2003 at 12:27pm
$` $ @( $`` a2
But it's against the law to discriminate against people with short hair or people who wear a lot of make-up or pierce their ears five times, or people with mohawks or green hair?
How many organizations have a no long haired people allowed policy?
I apologize for being a person without long hair posting here. I wouldn't have posted on this board if this thread hadn't been about me.
If you want to discuss how people have discriminated against you, real or perceived, because of long hair, this is your forum. No one should intrude into the one place you can do that. Being a member of a group that has been discriminated against for centuries, I get annoyed when people make light of that.
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Posted By: RedJen
Date Posted: Jul 9, 2003 at 12:43pm
I did not compare discrimination against long-haired people with discrimination against people of certain races/ religions/ ethnicity.
I also did not say everyone who hates long hair is jealous.
0 -$ ac `ddb ! (4 r ,, b` ," , - %$
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Posted By: Kintaro
Date Posted: Jul 9, 2003 at 1:26pm
She never said that, and it was my opinion alone. But it exists.
If I think Locks of Love is full of fetishists, abusive people, and profiteers, I'm allowed to say so.
I have yet to see someone discriminated at the workplace for having short hair. (! A al` eb (% $b` /6(bb !.$ ,-$! -- % ( Bp $
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Posted By: DaveDecker
Date Posted: Jul 9, 2003 at 6:29pm
... stepping into the fray... to try to quell the angst...
RedJen makes a very good point. Locks of Love cannot prove that they actually need more hair. Although they provide no official figures on hair donations collected (and only imprecise counts of wigs made), they do, from time to time, issue press releases, or are otherwise quoted in various media providing approximate tallies of incoming donations. All of those figures indicate increasing rates of hair donations. Locks of Love admits that they sell some hair, and they say that anything that is determined to be "unusable" is subject to sale, but they have never provided an accounting of the determination of how many hair donations they receive are "usable", nor have they provided an accounting of what has become of all of the "usable" donations. Their reporting on this issue is non-existent, and therefore IMO they have failed to demonstrate that they need any further donations.
So I hear you, RedJen. They haven't even tried to make a case of their need, and therefore (and from all the other information available) it seems that they are very much NOT in need of any more hair.
And RedJen, your analogy of the typical solicitation scenario is right on. Rod, if this reinforces your perception of me as "militant," I won't try to dissuade you.
Kintaro, I agree with you that having long hair is a very visible "marker" (of who wants & has long hair), and that it is the most discernable "marker that isn't proscribed by law to discriminate against," but I disagree with the idea that the extent of discrimination against the long-haired is anything close to the extent of discrimination against blacks.
Tina, your figures on the unemployment rate of inner-city blacks is quite inaccurate, but generally it is much higher than the unemployment rate of long-haired non-whites.
Rod, there are people who dislike long hair (but not the people to whom it is attached). However, there are people who hate long hair (no idea if they also hate the possessors). You and RedJen are both correct on that point.
I don't think anyone here except Kintaro thinks that everyone who doesn't have long hair is jealous of it. I certainly do not belive it.
Long-haired people are sometimes discriminated against, such as in employment opportunities. I've experienced it first hand. It doesn't mean that nobody was willing to hire me. It does mean that some people have either refused to grant further interviews (based on a multitude of non-verbal clues sent during the "sizing up" that goes on at job fairs), or else hinted that the chances of getting hired will be improved if "you get a haircut."
True, the extent of the discrimination against long-haired people -- overall -- is far less than blacks, et al, have been subjected to. But it is not accurate to say that long-haired people are not subjected to discrimination. We are not talking about degrees of discrimination here, we are talking about whether or not there is discrimination.
And Rod, your friend who has been called a "skinhead" because he is bald is about the same as me being called a "hippie." (Other long-haired people have heard the same "hippie" comment). I don't consider this discrimination so much as it is prejudice, but in either case (your friend's or mine) it, in and of itself, is not necessarily serious. Last time someone called me a hippie, I responded, "What's a hippie?" with a puzzled look on my face. They got the message.
One last note to Rod... bummer to hear your "group" has been discriminated against for centuries. Have things been getting better in that regard in recent decades and years?
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Posted By: Kintaro
Date Posted: Jul 9, 2003 at 9:00pm
Haw. I know not everybody is jealous of it. But they exist. I have friends who can't grow their hair because their parents still dictate their style , or general guidelines of a style.and I also know people who want EVERYBODY to conform.
And I also agree while LH is the most visible marker out there, and thus deserving of the worst comparison, I do know that the black struggle nis nowhere near the comparison to the LH struggle.
I used the cut in half line, but remember for hair, it's the hair, but for people of black descent, it was the people that were cut in half. A sick epoch of American *glory* (! A al` eb (% $b` /6(bb !.$ ,-$! -- % ( Bp $
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Posted By: Rod
Date Posted: Jul 9, 2003 at 9:33pm
Dave, you are a rational militant. Now there's an oxymoron.
Locks of Love is a charity. They solicit money and solicit hair. Some people on this board have a problem with them selling hair they don't use for wigs. What else should they do with it? Like all charities, they don't raise nearly enough money to complete their mission through solicitations. They have to look to other sources. They have a product and they sell it. That's great. A lot of charities sell donated products. That's what they do with the old car they ask you to donate.
People donate their hair willingly. Yeah, some are coerced, but I doubt the short hair police take people kicking and screaming. [I think they slip a ruffee.] Most people don't want their hair after it's cut off and probably don't have a problem if their ponytail is sold. Better than Locks of Love asking them for a $25 donation.
People shouldn't pressure you to cut off your hair to donate it to Locks of Love, but don't blame the charity for that.
There are plenty of people who have a problem with long hair on men. By growing your hair long, you've put yourself in that spot. Not saying you should have to get remarks, of course. Many men who grow their hair long don't take care of it. It often looks ratty. These men probably don't care. It gives men that do a bad name.
On the flip side, wearing your hair long makes you look like a rocker and women love rockers.
I don't think a lot of men are jealous of men with long hair. I'm sure quite a few women are jealous of women with long hair, but not a high percentage. Of course, long hair on women is considered the epitome of femininity. Men overwhelmingly prefer it. If a few don't women like it, know that no one is going to call you a dyke. I can empathize with long-haired men, not so much with long-haired women. Personally, I have no interest in growing my hair long and prefer it no longer than 2" at the longest part.
I'll bet you've been discriminated against a time or two at the office due to long hair. But discrimination isn't discrimination. There are degrees. By comparing discrimination against someone who has long hair to the Black experience makes light of the Black experience.
Dave, I'm Jewish and yes we're better off than we have been, but our synagouges are still defaced and torched, we're still denied admission to country clubs, and denied jobs at companies. And then there's the feelings Arabs have toward us. Jews have been getting killed for being Jewish for centuries. Long-haired people haven't.
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Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Jul 9, 2003 at 10:17pm
Here we go again Rod,... men "overwelmingly" prefer women with long hair.
As myself and many others on the short hair board have said, that isn't necessarily the case Rod. I have had ALOT more experience with men than you have Rod, -(you know my background from my writings here)-, and men are pretty much equally divided in my estimation between liking short, long and medium length hair on women.
Women DO listen to men's opinions on hairstyles and try to please their men more than you might know, and I assure you MANY men like short or quite short styles on women., and half the women in the modern world wouldn't have short styles if men really didn't like those styles. Don't kid yourself, women dress and wear hairstyles for men too. But please don't be innacurate and condescending and tell us the "overwealming" majority of men prefer long hair on women. I don't buy your arguments on that and it is very annoying that you have brought this up about ten times on these boards. You are becoming redundant with that statement. And it isn't true. But enough of that.
I do agree with you though Rod that very few short haired men are jealous of long haired men -(except for maybe teenaged boys and very young men who think hard rock and heavy metal guys with long hair are cool)-. The majority of men wear short or medium short length hair and seem to prefer it that way and women are used to men that way-(although I am sure there are many women that like long haired guys too, some women REALLY like long haired guys to the point of a fetish as evidenced by some of the comments on this board!!!)-
I doubt many guys are jealous about men no matter what kind of hair they have, guys haven't been conditioned to think like women have about hair and fashion. I don't think I have ever heard a man indicate in any way -(except maybe a couple of gay guys I met)- that they were "jealous" of another guy's hair. As far as I can tell, guys just don't think in those terms.
Now they might be jealous of a guy who is with a really sexy attractive woman though. I KNOW guys get jealous about that sometimes,-(especially if their own lady is a real hag or a cow, tee hee!!!)-.
Yes Kintaro the U.S, has a dismal history in regards to Blacks that is only slowly improving, BUT there is a group of people with even a lower standard of living, more poverty, more substance abuse, and a higher suicide rate than American Blacks, and that is the native people, Indians and Eskimos, in Canada.
I don't think the U.S. is alone in historical wrongdoing to others.-(though in fairness to both the U.S. and Canada another non-white group, Asians, are thriving in both the U.S. and Canada and in some cities doing even better than Whites are, so racial discrimination doesn't explain all of it, since Asians were also, to some extent, discriminated against, as were Jews, Irish Catholics and others at times)-.
4!,!
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Posted By: Jennifer
Date Posted: Jul 10, 2003 at 8:57am
| ere we go again Rod,... men "overwelmingly" prefer women with long hair. |
Tina, I think it may be true. Magazines that cater to men overwhelmingly feature long-haired models. Since the magazines are in the business to make money, they probably have done the research to find out generally what men prefer. It is rare that a short-haired woman is featured.
As a personal anecdote only, I found that, in my own life, men also overwhelmingly preferred my hair longer.
However, men who buck the trend and prefer shorter hair may also be more vocal about it because they are in a minority.
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Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Jul 10, 2003 at 11:49am
I was talking with Rod Jennifer.
Rod and I have discussed this topic at length. I have made many valid points claiming the opposite. And magazines these days show many medium and short length styles. Half the women wouldn't wear relatively short styles if they weren't popular.
However Rod and I generally have a good relationship and are compatible on some issues.
But I am done talking to you Jennifer. You are a trouble maker. In fact I have gotten several B-mails from people complaining about you and why the people who run this board haven't done something about you.
You are relentlessly negative and contrary to people on these boards just to cause trouble. You offer little constructive advice. You have nothing positive to say to people. It is fine to take a contrary view to people but you do it to people as a matter of course. A knee jerk reaction.
Don't address your writings to me again Jennifer.4!,!
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Posted By: Jennifer
Date Posted: Jul 10, 2003 at 6:09pm
Tina is more than welcome to her opinion. But I think it should be said that if anyone wishes to make personal comments, a public forum is not the place to do it!
Tina, I find it sad that you feel threatened by opinions that don't agree with you. I was very respectful in my post, and if you felt offended by it, then perhaps your opinion isn't as strong as you think it is.
But it doesn't justify continually spewing vitriol and gossip. That's simply negative energy that does nothing to enhance life.
Sorry you're in a bad mood, Tina.
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Posted By: DaveDecker
Date Posted: Jul 10, 2003 at 7:56pm
#``" '$ $ d ``
If it is determined to be "usable," they should retain it! And use it when and as "needed" to make wigs.
!`` $$ " p```e2
This is just plain not true. I invite you to read the basic financials provided in the Better Business Report (detailed earlier in this thread). In the most recently reported year in that report, cash donations alone covered all of their expenses.
d` (!4@ p`bde"
They have a product... hair... some "usable," some not... they make wigs... and they either give them away, or sell them on what they describe as a "sliding scale." The key factor of "production" of wigs is the hair. They should not sell "usable" hair, that has been given in good faith to be used specifically in the wigs that they make for the intended recipients (kids with alopecia). If they are selling "usable" hair, it is a breach of trust.
In other charities that accept old cars, it is clearly understood by the donor that the purpose of that charity is not to provide old cars to the "needy," but to sell them to raise cash to be used for the charity's actual purpose.
!d`,$ $B. d ``e(
So you haven't actually seen the multiple episodes of Maury, et. al, have you? Grotesque displays of insensitivity on the part of the host and his favorite "stylist." I know you're trying to be humorous but I don't find humor in the coercion and harassment that was the case for perhaps half of the donors on Maury's episodes.
#p` %$P,$ d`b$d
Not true. Several years ago I talked with a woman who had just donated her hair to that group. I told her what I knew of them. She was incensed. She swore that if she had known that only a small portion of the hair received is actually used in wigs, and that some of the hair is sold, she would have never donated. Locks has no interest in correcting widely held myths because donations would probably dry up. $25 is easy to come by. Three years growth of hair comes around only once every 3 years.
!d`,$ 0@.$ d`"d 0
True, Locks doesn't employ people to solicit. But they don't need to. Word of mouth (thanks to Maury and biased mainstream media reports) have millions fooled. I do blame the charity for failing to inform the public of the disposition of the hair donations they receive. If they honestly reported this information, it would be clear that further donations are not needed. Yet they are not required to report this information and they have no interest in doing so.
d`$ !0@ d``` *
No. I am not to blame for the way other people react to me. They are responsible for what they say to me and how they react to me.
#t " ! B& d` ``*
My external surface does not reveal the man beneath the hair. My words and actions do. Plenty of women would never "consider" me simply because they would presume that I couldn't possibly be intelligent or thoughtful or kind and considerate. Besides, judging me to be a rocker would be to grossly overstate my artistic abilities.
d`.$$ P( ` ` d*
Respectively: agreed, agreed (generally), yup, yup, and um well... not sure how to comment on that last one.
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I can empathize with them all. There are some forms of social pressure applied to the long-haired of both genders. No matter, it isn't right.
!p`.,!$@($ @ ``d
Good for you.
#d` %4 ($ $`` `
Not at the office... but before being hired, yes I have.
!t $(# R($ d```e*
This is exactly what I said earlier.
! `., R($ ```a2
I presume that sentence was directed to Kintaro. I've already said that I agree with you on this issue.
!t`, $@ t`b`
Rod, I agree that the degree of discrimination and hatred against long-haired is different and not as extreme as for the group you mention here. None of it is justified. But keep in mind that the purpose of this forum is not to discuss the extent of prejudice and discrimination against members of certain faiths or races, or to compare it with the extent of prejudice and discrimination against people with long hair.
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Posted By: DaveDecker
Date Posted: Jul 10, 2003 at 8:12pm
!p` $% `( ! a d
Tina, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Rod is entitled to his opinion. I have known LOTS of guys in my lifetime and the vast majority prefer long hair on women... I have known some guys who prefer short hair on women, yes... but the vast majority, no.
#d`. ((! a `.
That is thoughtful of them.
,"$ ,$ @ ! a d (
It is fallacious to assume that that is the reason they necessarily chose to wear their hair short. I know of one woman who wears her hair short to please her husband (and she prefers long hair). I've heard (from the women) a plethora of reasons they choose short hair, some of the most common reasons being "easy to take care of," "looks professional," "I never thought I could get away with wearing it long," "it's stylish/up-to-date" and "I just don't want it to embarass me." I've heard a lot more reasons, but the point is that only one woman I've ever known wore her hair short to please her guy.
#d $ # ` (! ` d`&
Rod is just as entitled to his opinion as you are to yours.
d` '0` ! ` `.
I disagree with you on this Tina. Sure, some of the women here have expressed their appreciation for long hair on guys, maybe even on a certain guy ... but that does not imply that they have a fetish for it.
d`$ $ ` ,! a ``
True. I don't give a darn what other men choose for themselves. Only that they aren't hassled for their choice.
$!p` (!4`($ ` d`
Um, more like a brief "lucky guy" thought, then it's gone. No big deal.
!p
(&4` , ` @.
Please, let's not venture off topic here.
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Posted By: Rod
Date Posted: Jul 10, 2003 at 8:23pm
Dave, I'm hardly an advocate for Locks of Love, and am not familiar with the company's inner workings. They do good work. People donate hair to them. On their website they say that some of the donations are sold. That some people don't know that or wouldn't donate if they did isn't Locks of Love's fault. They are a charity. They have trouble enough getting the word out about what they do, not what they don't.
While cash donations may cover this year's expenses, no one knows if they'll cover next year's expenses. Getting ahead is smart. It's not like the charity is enriching anyone. The expenses are for their mission of helping kids.
People make the hair donations. Locks of Love makes no secret that they sell some hair for their benefit. They aren't acting dishonestly. No one made the people donate their hair. Now that they've done so it's up to Locks of Love how they want to proceed. You shouldn't be telling them what to do.
I have seen an episode or two of "Maury." Women appear on the show willingly and get their haircut willingly. I'm sure some are prodded or encouraged, but then people are prodded and encouraged when they make all sorts of decisions.
Some cry. Some aren't happy with the results. That's life. People make a lot of decisions that they aren't happy with. I must have missed the episodes where Maury took the drugged women, tied them down, and cut their hair.
Most of the people donating hair were planning on cutting it anyway. I did a Google search and found a bunch of recent articles about women donating hair. They talked about growing it just to donate the hair, how they were ready for a change, or how they were glad to help children out. (Granted, I'm sure they wouldn't print unhappy stories.)
To get back to my earlier statement, Dave, you guys are in the minority. Most people with long hair look don't cherish their long hair the way you guys do. Some aren't that attached to it. While no one should pressure you to cut your hair to give to charity, Locks of Love and Wigs for Kids do good work with hair that people no longer want. What would you have people do with their hair after they've cut it? If they didn't donate it, most of them would just let the salon sweep it up into the trash.
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Posted By: DaveDecker
Date Posted: Jul 10, 2003 at 8:27pm
t`" $ `(( ``(
No Tina, you are directing your comments to Rod. Youare talking (or, writing) on a public message board. It is a thread open to others to comment, including Jennifer. Her comment was on-topic. You may notice that I deleted your previous post because it was 100% off-topic. I remind you to keep your postings here on-topic, and to allow others to add on-topic comments.
!t !$ , ``*
Fine, don't address Jennifer if you don't wish. Silence is your prerogative, too.
I will also caution you against making personal attacks (the "you are a trouble maker" comment).
At this point, I am more concerned about your postings here than anybody else's. In fact, at this point I am concerned about your postings only.
#t % p ,! ` d`"
You know Tina, this sounds a lot like you, when it comes to Jennifer. I am requesting you to cease your attacks on her, immediately.
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Posted By: DaveDecker
Date Posted: Jul 10, 2003 at 8:55pm
!t`, $@ p```
I've examined their IRS returns for the past 4 years. In their bank account exists an exponential growth of unused cash. It is difficult if not impossible to justify selling "usable" hair in this case. Of course, we don't know if that's the case, because they don't reveal that potentially useful information.
Getting ahead is not so much "smart" as it is indicative of a state of being "not needy." Their position does not warrant further donations of any kind. They have been donated enough hair resources to last for years, if not decades. Seriously.
$` ,'4 , d ``e
Yet they sit, unused. As I said, "not needy."
!d`,$ $@*$ t`` `
Yes, they are. Not telling the whole truth is tantamount to lying. And except for $ revenue, they are not telling any part of the truth of what becomes of all the hair they've received.
# `.$ $@$$ t`` `
I'm not telling them what to do. But plenty of do-gooders DO tell donators (past and potential) "what to do" with their hair. Take your message to THEM, not to me.
``&$ 0@$$ `` d`(
Didn't Uzma rebut this point already?
Willingly, you say? So willingly, that they weep and sob and moan and quiver... out of sheer willingness to be emotionally pained. Yeah, right. I don't buy it. Yes, they have objectively agreed to the donation, but at the time it is given, it is clearly not done willingly.
#d "$"$ "$ d ``e
And that makes all such decisions okay? I don't think so. Given what you've shared about the discrimination you've been subjected to, I'm surprised you wrote that.
#d` "0 d` ``
Just because people consciously do things doesn't mean that they are done willingly, or that they even want to take the action. At what point do you begin to feel compassion for someone who is so obviously extremely upset?
#p` ,& P($ p`b`d
No. People who are pushed, prodded, cajoled, and coerced through guilt trips and other means were in all likelihood not planning to cut their hair anyway.
d`$ ! B.$ d` `e
Of course they wouldn't. And I've heard such stories, too. This is a different scenario. One to which I'm not opposed, because the people are explicity choosing to grow their hair for a purpose. When locks sprang into existence (or when individuals became aware of them), the long hair that people had already grown was not grown for the purpose of cutting it off to give to some charity.
# `$$ @" t` da
How do you know? Some do, some may not, but certainly we are all well aware of how short most people wear their hair, and have consciously decided to wears ours long. You are questioning the extent of people's desire for long hair. I say, no matter how strong (or not) the resolve, if someone wants long hair and has long hair, they shouldn't be pressured to cut it off. Suggesting to someone that they cut their long hair off is disrespectful.
``$ &$ .$ ``de(
They also collect far more hair than they need, and do collect it from people who would rather not have given it, especially had they known about the excess quantities donated but not used.
`` $'4@$ d` `a2
If someone with long hair truly, of their own accord and 100% without duress decides they want to cut their long hair, fine, they may cut, and donate it if they wish. But at the same time, all those people out there who solicit long-haired people for haircuts on behalf of locks should shut their mouths and cease their solicitations. I am completely fed up with it, and I know many long-haired women who feel the same.
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Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Jul 10, 2003 at 10:12pm
Dave,
Out of respect for you and the board I will refrain from any more attacks on Jennifer. Her and I don't get along and better not to address each other here or anywhere on this forum. Sorry about that.
I beg to differ that I have been a negative influence on Hair Talk however. I think I have been generally positive and made many new internet friends here.
I also beg to differ on men's opinions or preferences on women's hair. There is tremendous social pressure on guys to say to other guys that they automatically prefer long hair on women.
However I worked as an escort for a few years and met many guys that I was not only intimate with, but talked with, -(it wasn't all about sex)-.
I initially had long hair, later short hair, and I actually got just as many compliments and positive reactions, if not more, from men with my hair short as long.
Many men privately prefer short hair on women but are afraid to admit it to their buddies feeling they might not understand, society being conditioned as it is.
However this being the long hair board where people like to believe long hair is automatically more popular with the majority,-(just as on the short hair board many people argue the growing popularity of short styles on women)-, I will play along.
Ok, long hair is more popular!!!
4!,!
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Posted By: Lady Godiva
Date Posted: Jul 10, 2003 at 10:27pm
``$ $$ $ Da`ha
Something like this happened to you several years ago, also, right? Fascinating. I actually don't want to be "in style," which, to me, means being a slave to the fashion industry. I prefer to create my own style based on what I like, not what's the weekly trend. My hair is a big part of my style. :-)
Speaking of slavery to fashion, that's what salons promote. They are a self-perpetuating entity, dependent on promoting false insecurity in the very people who pay them good money to "solve" their hair "problems." No thanks. I don't need that kind of "help," LOL!
Timeless, as ever,
Lady Godiva< -, aaja4 0 $ 4`r <$`2 !$) -$)$!,-%-, bp
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Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Jul 10, 2003 at 10:39pm
I agree Lady Godiva that the fashion and hair ndustry is mostly hype to sell product or get people into salons. It is a money making racket.
Nonetheless, I still love reading fashion mags and I do like going to the salon!
I can't help it, I like fashion!4!,!
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Posted By: Benji the Sausage
Date Posted: Jul 10, 2003 at 10:43pm
have seen an episode or two of "Maury." Women appear on the show willingly and get their haircut willingly. I'm sure some are prodded or encouraged, but then people are prodded and encouraged when they make all sorts of decisions.
Some cry. Some aren't happy with the results. That's life. People make a lot of decisions that they aren't happy with. I must have missed the episodes where Maury took the drugged women, tied them down, and cut their hair.
Most of the people donating hair were planning on cutting it anyway. I did a Google search and found a bunch of recent articles about women donating hair. They talked about growing it just to donate the hair, how they were ready for a change, or how they were glad to help children out. (Granted, I'm sure they wouldn't print unhappy stories.) |
Id have to say I agree with that. No offense to anyone whose been on a talk show here but honestly the only motivation for someone who could easily cut their hair in a salon and donate it to do it on national TV would be to get everyones attention.
I'm not very attached to my hair. I'm not big on physical things like hair or makeup. But I would prefer my hair long.
There are some people who spend way to much time on their hair. Or treat it WAY to carefully. When I was younger I grew waist length hair using Suave and White rain and cotton pillowcases and brushing it while wet and my hair wasn't PERFECT, but it wasn't as terrible as some people say it will get after doing all of that.
Oh Well. Everyones got their quirks. I rearrange my CDs bi weekly, and most people here treat their hair like a fine rare fabric from asia. Could be worse. My friend organizes her french fries by length before eating them. One at a time. - @ifda$A`e )! ,`p 2$`p $ (! %!%$), ,! "b )(
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Posted By: SuperGrover
Date Posted: Jul 10, 2003 at 10:47pm
Wow, Dave. You're such a good moderator. You've spent so much time in the past couple days to be a peacekeeper in this thread!
I admire your work. :)
!) ic a p`` -& `b . @p )2 ,-$ ! ! $ -$ ` ,
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Posted By: tina m
Date Posted: Jul 10, 2003 at 10:56pm
Yeah Dave is actually a good moderator-(chairs were flying!!!, punches were being thrown!!!)- ..... but I think he is a little mad at me right now!
I better take me and my pixie cut back to the Short Hair board!
4!,!
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Posted By: Lady Godiva
Date Posted: Jul 10, 2003 at 11:11pm
# `$$ @" t` da
Say I had cancer, and facing chemotherapy, had to cut my hair off. I would save my braid for posterity or else let it fly to the wind so birds could line their nests with it for warmth.
I would never in a million years donate it to Lox or Wigs. Neither receive the BBB's seal of approval. Not too long ago, I was approached in a public restroom by a woman who works for Wigs. Her attitude was utterly appalling. She tried to ply the guilt trip, "But the children don't get to choose whether they have cancer or not!" implying that somehow my having long hair made me responsible for their condition, or as if my donating my hair to Wigs would cure any of them.
I am the only person who decides how much or what I will donate, and to which charities. Next time that woman approaches me (if ever), she will get an earful of what I think about her manipulative, exploitative tactics. Unfortunately, the night she cornered me, I was unprepared for an unpleasant encounter, as I was out on the town with friends enjoying a local band.
So much for such "charities."
Jennifer Eve< -, aaja4 0 $ 4`r <$`2 !$) -$)$!,-%-, bp
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Posted By: Jennifer
Date Posted: Jul 11, 2003 at 6:41am
#t *,'4 $@ ``
Dave, thank you!
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Posted By: Rod
Date Posted: Jul 11, 2003 at 9:04am
<"p ! @ ! b``"
Locks of Love gets hair they don't need and they don't publicize it. They sell their hair and not everyone knows that. People bug long-haired people to give to them. Complain about that if you want. But there's nothing wrong with this charity. They do good work. They give little children wigs that really want them.
http://talk.hairboutique.com/forum/viewthread.asp?page=1&pagesize=20&forum=AMB_AP881778452&id=4854 - http://talk.hairboutique.com/forum/viewthread.asp?page=1&pagesize=20&forum=AMB_AP881778452&id=4854
As Grenwich's post in this thread shows, Locks of Love meets 20 of the BBB's 23 requirements. The other three that aren't met are not violations, just information a charity chooses not to provide. Charities are hand-to-mouth organizations. I've volunteered at a few. They never operate the way a for profit company does and comply with everything.
So, knock people for asking you to give your hair. It's okay to not give something of yours to charity. No one can give or wants to give to all the charities out there. But these people are legit and do mitzvot.
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Posted By: Lady Godiva
Date Posted: Jul 11, 2003 at 6:40pm
#``" '$ $ d bdd2
"But there's nothing wrong with this charity. They do good work."
I don't agree. Lox serves itself first and foremost. Their tax reports reveal sizable profits, and their hoard of hair means they don't need any more donations, period. They could go for years making wigs without additional donations.
As for it's being "good," that's simply an opinion. As I see it, Lox and Wigs only reinforce superficial notions that people are valuable only if "complete" with a full head of hair. Like the salon industry, they both encourage those who "need" their services to feel insecure and embarrassed by their baldheadedness/imperfect appearance. Oh, great.
Worse, Lox and Wigs fool people into thinking they actually are helping the less fortunate by donating hair. Puh-leeze. These kids need cures, not band-aid hair patches. With rose-colored glasses, the American public believes it is contributing to something good when its only wasting its time, efforts and money on something that solves nothing. Lox and Wigs deflect from real cures with their empty activities. With all the artificial hair out there, there is no need for human donations -- except for the profit earned for Lox and Wigs from selling the human hair they receive for free. And from what I've read, most of these children still prefer soft silk head wraps to these hair pieces, anyway.
When I wrote Madonna Coffmann (pres. of Lox), I asked her pointedly TO WHOM, FOR WHAT PURPOSE, and FOR WHAT PRICE the hair was sold. Funny, she never wrote back. I think the public should have the right to know, and I bet if the public knew, there would be a huge downturn in donations to these organizations. Whoops... there goes the profit in sales! It is dishonest, more like fraudulent, when these groups pretend to need more and more hair, when the truth is they do not.
This hardly demonstrates or defines "good work."
Jennifer Eve< -, aaja4 0 $ 4`r <$`2 !$) -$)$!,-%-, bp
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Posted By: Rod
Date Posted: Jul 11, 2003 at 7:17pm
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Profits are distributed to people who own a company. Charities don
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Posted By: Beatnik Guy
Date Posted: Jul 11, 2003 at 7:56pm
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