Hair does (i repeat) NOT have a gender.
Printed From: HairBoutique.com
Category: Long Hair Happenings
Forum Name: Long Hair Support
Forum Description: Growing it long takes commitment and support.
URL: /forum_posts.php?TID=596
Printed Date: Jan 12, 2025 at 9:41pm
Topic: Hair does (i repeat) NOT have a gender.
Posted By: Kintaro
Subject: Hair does (i repeat) NOT have a gender.
Date Posted: May 13, 2003 at 1:34pm
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Every time I hear or see someone mention feminine, I find that very sexually discriminatory. It just enhances the stereotype that every man has to have a weekly appointment with people like Brent, and barbers affiliated to crewbuzz.com My hair is not second class to anyone else's, regardless of length, color, texture, style, or the gender of the person where the hair is sprouting from. The only way it could be viewed as second class is its current condition. I am as much a living being as anyone else on this board, I know I am treated as such, but if the posts don't reflect it, well, that's like saying you're not racist but calling all men the n-word. So besides this post being a rant, it has 2 open questions : What's so feminine about hair ? And if you have to fall back on terms both sexes appreciate, like beauty and youth, then why are you using feminine ? The sooner the people that actually have long hair break their own (6th***) stigma, the sooner the rest of the world can at least understand and not make stupid remarks like "uhh, you'd look good with short hair." or "it doesn't suit you. it makes you look not-enough/too *feminine*." (Yes, too feminine even for ladies, feminine as our B.S. society feeds us also encompasses youth (despite men enjoying youth as well) and if you look 20 with long hair but are 32, and people tell you to look your age, wouldn't you feel offended ?) It's food for thought. Very bitter, but eat it up. It will be good for you. --- Kixx. ------------- I hate all of the following and lots more : Fundamentalists, racists, sexists, fascists, ageists (people saying seniors = senile , kids = stupid , 18 = immature or a combo of them), and bigots for causes yet to receive their own designation. |
Replies: 47
Posted By: Kintaro
Date Posted: May 13, 2003 at 1:34pm
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Every time I hear or see someone mention feminine, I find that very sexually discriminatory. It just enhances the stereotype that every man has to have a weekly appointment with people like Brent, and barbers affiliated to crewbuzz.com My hair is not second class to anyone else's, regardless of length, color, texture, style, or the gender of the person where the hair is sprouting from. The only way it could be viewed as second class is its current condition. I am as much a living being as anyone else on this board, I know I am treated as such, but if the posts don't reflect it, well, that's like saying you're not racist but calling all men the n-word. So besides this post being a rant, it has 2 open questions : What's so feminine about hair ? And if you have to fall back on terms both sexes appreciate, like beauty and youth, then why are you using feminine ? The sooner the people that actually have long hair break their own (6th***) stigma, the sooner the rest of the world can at least understand and not make stupid remarks like "uhh, you'd look good with short hair." or "it doesn't suit you. it makes you look not-enough/too *feminine*." (Yes, too feminine even for ladies, feminine as our B.S. society feeds us also encompasses youth (despite men enjoying youth as well) and if you look 20 with long hair but are 32, and people tell you to look your age, wouldn't you feel offended ?) It's food for thought. Very bitter, but eat it up. It will be good for you. --- Kixx. (! A al` eb (% $b` /6(bb !.$ ,-$! -- % ( Bp $ |
Posted By: hairalways
Date Posted: May 13, 2003 at 2:13pm
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Kintaro _ get off it.... Your question is insane.....as if we as human beings carry around our inner opinions and desires like jackets that we can take off as soon as we realize that we are thinking irrationally. This "stigma" you consider to be ridiculous is responsible for the existance of mankind. For 1000's and 1000's of years before any of us showed up, feminine traits were used by human males as markers for good breeding, and thus the perpetration of the species. We have become quite full of ourselves in the last few centuries and are trying to shrug off instincts that we carried for many years before. You may also want to ask...why are breasts feminine? Whay are soft curves feminine....they just are. For the same reason a strong jawline and broad shoulders are signs of masculinity. The jawline can be obscured by long hair - short hair emphasizes it. So in essence, short hair emphasizes masculine traits, long hair does the opposite. These are my humble rantings. they are a bit bitter too. sorry. Jacqui |
Posted By: Isla Q.
Date Posted: May 13, 2003 at 2:27pm
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In today's society it's just a fact that most of the women with long hair are women, and therefore long hair is seen by some as a feminine feature. Which is so stupid considering in the past both men and women wore their hair long mostly. Speaking as a long-haired woman: when women are asked why they like having long hair, and reply it makes them feel feminine, it does not mean they think a guy with long hair looks feminine. Feminine in this case means something along the lines of beautiful, attractive (to the opposite - or the same, whatever - sex) and pretty. It's feeling good about yourself really, all summed up into one little word. But not all women with long hair look feminine. Just like women with short hair do not have to look masculine. I can't speak for the people who relate to men with long hair as 'too feminine looking', because I am not one of them. If a guy looks feminine, that's usually because of his face or body, not because of his hair. Hair can increase it, but no man I've ever seen has looked feminine simply because of his hair. |
Posted By: Kintaro
Date Posted: May 13, 2003 at 2:50pm
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Your question is insane.....if it takes an insane person to ask a valid question, so be it. as if we as human beings carry around our inner opinions and desires like jackets that we can take off as soon as we realize that we are thinking irrationally. It is normal for people to make mistakes. To willfully not correct them is a severe flaw that is correctable. As for time frame, next line. This "stigma" you consider to be ridiculous is responsible for the existance of mankind. For 1000's and 1000's of years before any of us showed up, feminine traits were used by human males as markers for good breeding, and thus the perpetration of the species. okay. I agree on the point that it was necessary to ensure survival. How about we take the Neolithic era as a point of time where we were sure humanity was the #1 species out there. Humans could sustain their own growth, therefore sexual markers of who has higher probabilities of scoring have been useless for about 10k years now. Besides, all you have to do is swap partners, much easier when not a nomad culture. We have become quite full of ourselves in the last few centuries and are trying to shrug off instincts that we carried for many years before. And is this a bad thing? There are lots of things to change. Might I remind you that it's not feminine traits that are used for breeding markers but people of that gender. Women are sometimes simply viewed as trophies even today by quite a lot of people (don't ask for a figure, but there are people like that everywhere) --- As for being full of ourselves, there are too many angles on that. We still are today, maybe not the same way, but surely in similar quantity. You may also want to ask...why are breasts feminine? Whay are soft curves feminine....they just are. That's just like saying why is a penis masculine. It'S on a male. Big deal. It's not like the size/texture/width matters. I have a friend (male) who can fill a B-cup , this with his natural body. He's clearly male, but do his breasts make him feminine ? No. How about a hermaphrodite, are they any less human for having both units, any more ? No. Humanity is like a chain. We are as strong as the weakest chain link. IF we treat people differently with these damn labels, screw the chain, it'll break with minimal tension. For the same reason a strong jawline and broad shoulders are signs of masculinity. The jawline can be obscured by long hair - short hair emphasizes it. So in essence, short hair emphasizes masculine traits, long hair does the opposite With that last paragraph alone, I see the light : You have no clue to the difference between simple genetics and flair, style... Breasts are generally found on women. Genetics. Men are almost exclusive to having penises. Genetics. Men are in general taller, have broad shoulders, etc. Genetics. Soft curves can mean anything. To me, they mean rolling in a way not to injure one's self (non-genetic). No debating against what you may portray them to be, but if my hunch is right, that also is a question of genetics. And through genetics, we all get different units depending on what we are looking at. Smaller breasts doesn't make a person younger. The height, width and weight of a person do not make them more masculine or feminine in any way, and I dare say this on a hair forum, but a longer or wider penis does not make a man more masculine either. So then, what do feminine and masculine refer to ? Nothing in the concrete. how about the abstract.... Just pre-conceived crap that people try to justify their decisions/choices/prejudging with. The best thing you can do with flawed labels is throw them out. Just because some things didn'T change 1,5,10,50, or 10000 years ago, doesn't mean now ain't a good time to change that. Passivity goes nowhere. (! A al` eb (% $b` /6(bb !.$ ,-$! -- % ( Bp $ |
Posted By: Kintaro
Date Posted: May 13, 2003 at 3:06pm
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There are two posts that made me start this thread. One was by Lyris, mentionning the Neutrogena and Aussie products (i think it was a leave-in conditioner) that smelt very feminine. As we can see that too many people use feminine like a buzzword similar to cool, phat or groovy, I asked if she could clarify for the sexually impaired since that's unfortunately the slant of such a buzzword. Fruity, Herby, Koala-y (i know, Aussie doesn't test on animals, nothing said animal by-products o_O ), anything that could try and communicate the actual smell. It's feminine is no better than saying "something" or "i don't know". The second was by Elissa. She said it makes her feel "feminine" . When taken care of, it is nice, pretty and good-looking, it makes her feel good. (paraphrase) Feeling good and visual beauty is something you can't say staright to my face that men can't appreciate, hell, don't want even for themselves. Not looking like trash != feminine. I have nothing against either poster. It's just when something that has no substantial meaning which is also used as a setback to 50 % of the world becomes this banalized, the time is right to change it. And that time, starts now. I might not change the world as a whole, but the few people I am surrounded by will take a few minutes to really think about what they're saying. This isn't a matter of politically or sexually being correct, it's about being humanly correct. If it looks nice, say nice. If it smells like koalas, say it smells like Koalas. Thanks for reading. (! A al` eb (% $b` /6(bb !.$ ,-$! -- % ( Bp $ |
Posted By: Lyris
Date Posted: May 13, 2003 at 3:12pm
| Good grief!! I took the hint, I apologized, I described the scent in detail on that previous post! What more is there when discussing a product composed of water and silicone? |
Posted By: Kintaro
Date Posted: May 13, 2003 at 3:23pm
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This wasn't an attack on you (nor Elissa). And yes, I know you clarified. But shouldn't it be clear to begin with ? Still, the paint is on the wall. I'll feel much better when people get up, wake up and tell it like it is. I am no fan of double-speak. It's just a real lack of sincerity in some cases (although I agree for your post it wasn't meant with ill intentions or especially blank intentions, which are often the case with the fem/masc labels) It's the second one that made me tip over, although i see the abuse of such labels daily, so it is not the sum of just 2 posts. (! A al` eb (% $b` /6(bb !.$ ,-$! -- % ( Bp $ |
Posted By: Isla Q.
Date Posted: May 13, 2003 at 3:24pm
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Just out of curiosity, are there any other men (regardless of length of hair), or women, who feel this way? Dave? |
Posted By: Lyris
Date Posted: May 13, 2003 at 3:33pm
| Okay Kintaro, we've made peace :-) |
Posted By: uzma
Date Posted: May 13, 2003 at 5:30pm
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My hair does have a gender because I have a gender (female) and my hair is an extension of me. Hair has a gender by "association". Men have hands. Women have hands. You can generally tell a male hand from a female hand. Not so with hair, when viewed detached from the body. A strand is a strand. However..... Hair length is not checked by gender but it's growth may be (baldness). Higher testosterone levels mean less hair. Higher eostrogen levels mean more hair. Generally. Maybe this is where "long hair is feminine" comes from. Perhaps hair doesn't so much possess a sexuality but IS sexual? Sexual only with reference to it's owner, however:-) Unless you have a hair-fetish, of course! ), R '. `p % |
Posted By: Lady Godiva
Date Posted: May 13, 2003 at 10:07pm
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I think this is a very valid point. I never, never refer to long hair as feminine, unless qualified on a particular woman, but not in general. I see long hair as sexually enhancing, be it on a man or on a woman. On a man, it enhances his masculinity, and on a woman, it enhances her femininity. The reason is simple, but hairiness in general is indicative of sexual maturity, while lack of bodily/overall hair indicates sexual immaturity, as demonstrated by children. In fact, when considering total body hair, men are hairier than women, so if anything, bearing a lot of hair is a masculine, not feminine trait. Hair enhances the angularity/shape of the person, rather than smoothing it out. Additionally, if we're talking about human practice through history, very few time periods transpired where men had short hair as the rule. Such time periods were abnormal, not common. The present, modern time is one of those times. Otherwise, long hair on both sexes has always been the norm. Personally, I am turned off by these ads for exercise equipment, where the "buff" man suddenly appears shaven. I even see body depilatory kits for men to remove their body hair. What the heck is going on? Why is the world so fearful of hair? I'll tell you why: it's sensual! Not just sensuous, but sensual. It hearkens back to eons ago when our species focused mainly on basic survival. Lifespans were short. Life was hard. Don't waste your time on the immature. Go for the real thing. Mate, provide offspring, ensure the species survives. Who the heck wants children or a childlike appearance for this? So in today's world, we emphasize hairless bodies, and now short hair. I really have to wonder why there is such a determined focus on youthfulness, in hairlessness, in denying maturity and adulthood. It's a bit creepy. Jennifer Eve< -, aaja4 0 $ 4`r <$`2 !$) -$)$!,-%-, bp . |
Posted By: claribuzz
Date Posted: May 13, 2003 at 10:58pm
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I like it when people open up and expressed themselves like this. Well my opinion is you should wear your hair the way you want BUT remember not to offend yourselve and try not to offend others. Natural, fake in this world these two words collide ever so often Hey Kintaro do you really have long hair ? 
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Posted By: KathyAnn
Date Posted: May 13, 2003 at 11:39pm
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*Hair length in regards to masculinity and feminity is completely cultural. Long hair is no more "feminine" than short hair. The same with short hair. In Africa for centuries both men and women have had very short hair or shaved heads. Likewise at times on other continents long or short hair on men or women varied from culture to culture. Likewise our sexuality has varied. True most people are hetrosexual but there have also always been gays, lesbians, and certainly bisexuals. Bisexual women often raised children with other women in some cultures. So much of hair fashion, clothing and even sexuality is cultural. Hair, like other aspects of culture varies from culture to culture. |
Posted By: Elissa
Date Posted: May 14, 2003 at 4:49am
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I was one of the people who said my long hair makes me feel feminine (I think that's what I said--that's exactly what I meant to write.) The emphasis is on makes ME FEEL feminine. I did not say long hair IS feminine. I did not say that my long hair makes ME feminine (that comes from within, in my opinion). I understand Kintaro's frustration in the face of society's misconceptions about men and long hair, but statements like mine do not promote these misconceptions. I think they may just be hitting a nerve. |
Posted By: Elissa
Date Posted: May 14, 2003 at 5:01am
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"When taken care of, it is nice, pretty and good-looking, it makes her feel good. " It also makes me feel very, VERY female. That's why I said "feminine" and not "good". I meant "feminine". And since we are talking about feelings, mine, there really is no argument here. From a personal standpoint, I happen to think that long hair on men looks very masculine, very male. I've had a boyfriend or two with long hair and I liked their look very much. I certainly don't see long hair as being feminine in and of itself. I don't believe I implied it, either. |
Posted By: hairalways
Date Posted: May 14, 2003 at 5:18am
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Kintaro - It's nice how you can shove everything that separates us into a nice little "genetics" closet. Never mind that every one of those traits are what attracts us to each other. If I see a man with big breasts, I don't picture him as masculine. << I would never NEVER want to be part of a world where you could not tell the difference between a man and a woman. I believe in everyone's freedom to feel and look as they wish. In my opinion, we should hang on to our survival instincts for as long as we can.....I don't see the world going on as we know it for much longer and once this place blows and there is not much left...whoever is left will have to start over and will need them. Oh yeah...and stopping in the neolithic era wouldn't be good. I would maybe go back 120 years or so - no less. Many diseases weren't curable until that recent(some not until the mid 20th century) and infant deaths were high due to fevers, polio, rubella, etc. jacqui |
Posted By: uzma
Date Posted: May 14, 2003 at 6:52am
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Looking at genetics in isolation (from nurture/culture/socialization):- Female = xx chromosome Male = xy chromosome The ), R '. `p % |
Posted By: Kintaro
Date Posted: May 14, 2003 at 10:41am
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Claribuzz : Yes, I have strands reaching 45cm now (18 inches) I did post a pic of me before, but I forgot the exact link, or if it is even still nline due to renovations. It was a vulgar one though. And to all : One extra reason "feminine" pisses me off is that it can be equated to doll or slave. Women are neither. At least I believe them to be neither. 120 years ago, women were repeat-a-wombs. They often had kids until they died in some cases. And you want to feel like that ? --- I'm sure you don't, but it's crime by association. "Femininity" as far as we all agree to, is linked to the female half of the species. And females were, and by some, still possibly are, viewed as sub-human. I refuse to agree to that. I also refuse to agree they are superior just because they perk up to look nicer, better, whatever. Some are just offended in this thread because I'm attacking their personal cushion. Femininity to them is almost a life jacket, and they can't swim without it. Get over it. This thread was started to make people think, not turn off their brain and crumple back into their little ball, and posting by proxy from that isolated ball. Do you look good today ? Yes, no, maybe? Doesn't matter, your unit will still be there tomorrow regardless if you look like a superstar or like total crap. There's always tomorrow, and the next day. Enjoy your life, not the labels you put on it. (! A al` eb (% $b` /6(bb !.$ ,-$! -- % ( Bp $ |
Posted By: hairalways
Date Posted: May 14, 2003 at 2:47pm
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Part of living life is embracing your identity. I can't speak for all, but a part of mine lives in a place that can only be defined by me to be a feminine realm. I would not deny it. I celebrate my femininity, because to deny it is to ignore part of my soul. I don't expect you to understand this. I also take extreme offense if you think it is something to hide behind. Au contraire friend, as professional who has to work with many chauvenists, it would be easier to dress and act less "feminine" but I am braver than that. jacqui |
Posted By: uzma
Date Posted: May 15, 2003 at 1:12am
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The original assertion of this thread was that hair does not have a gender. I agree that objectively hair is genderless. It subjectively acquires (for want of a better word) a gender by association with a human. In terms of styles, length, etc being defined as m or f, that changes with time and place as others here have pointed out. So the argument that long-hair on a man is feminine ), R '. `p % |
Posted By: DaveDecker
Date Posted: May 15, 2003 at 5:48am
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Hi everyone, I wanted to reply sooner, alas, along came distractions. Anyway... this has been a very interesting topic. I don't know what I can add that hasn't already been said... all I can do is offer brief comment from my own perspective. The fact that a man's hair can grow just as long as a woman's hair is evolutionary evidence that the ability to do so is not a biological "mistake." Kintaro detailed specific biological differences between genders, but there are other "parts" for which the gender is not visibly discernable (such as eyes). That the vast majority of men in "Western" societies wear their hair short is simply the result of acculturation. Within this culture, it is very easy to see a head of long hair and automatically assume that the possessor thereof is a woman, and thus, it can be disconcerting to learn that the possessor of a given head of long hair is actually a man. This could lead to a discussion on the importance people place on ascertaining the gender of others... |
Posted By: KathyAnn
Date Posted: May 15, 2003 at 9:19am
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*Exactly Dave, culture is a huge influence on how long or short, men or women, wear their hair. Men can certainly still be masculine with long hair just as women can be feminine with short hair. Someone mentioned the social and environmental trends in west Europe are causing the birthrates to drop, yet the United States has the same trends and our birthrates are much higher than Europe and our birthrates are increasing. Because of higher birthrates and also immigration, the U.S. is growing extremely rapidly in population {200 million in U.S. in 1970, 290 million today, and projected population of 440 million in 2050). The main reason that west Europe's birthrates are lower is so many women and couples there have decided not to have children. In the U.S. even many single women and Lesbian couples I know have kids,{my significant other Tina has a child}, not to mention hetrosexual couples. * *I have been to west Europe, you really notice the difference. In the U.S. there seem to be kids everywhere, especially here in the middle part of the country and everyone talks about their kids and having kids. Over there it seemed to me just the opposite. *For centuries west Europe sent people to North and South America. Will the trend be reversed in the future? Will the Americas, as we get more populated and overcrowded, send people to Europe where they will undoubtly need more workers in the future? Just a little sociological note there. |
Posted By: uzma
Date Posted: May 15, 2003 at 5:38pm
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Hi KathyAnn Although native Western Europeans are tending to have fewer/no offspring in each new generation, the population is increasing due to immigration. Immigrants from certain countries tend to have large families. So we are in no danger of de-population. I could talk about the "why" question regarding falling birth rates among the W.Es, but that would take us way off topic. I will just say that many social factors exist that discourage us from reproducing and in parallel to this, fertility in both sexes is on the decline. Uzma ), R '. `p % |
Posted By: KathyAnn
Date Posted: May 15, 2003 at 11:14pm
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* Thank you for your replies uzma and A.C. I have read a little bit about what you mentioned A.C.. Maybe that is what gave me the idea. That and the fact that North and South America, at current rates of growth, could eventually get too crowded{heaven forbid!}. |
Posted By: andi
Date Posted: May 16, 2003 at 9:13am
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I think that, along with the fact that more women in Europe are not having children a couple of other things are happening to. One is that people here are having children much later, well into their 30s in many cases which naturally drops the number of children they will have - not only through decreased fertility but also because there are less years in which to do it. The other is that there is a lot of planning of families, in terms of deciding how many to have and what spacing you want for them. In Britain there isn't really a tendency to have lots of kids. $! Ahgla epe -(,`0 "> `b /0%, !,) $-- %, b2 /. |
Posted By: Beatnik Guy
Date Posted: May 18, 2003 at 11:30am
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I'm going to have to take exception to some of what you've said here, Brent. To link the health of a society to number of children produced is a bizarre sort of measure; and the comments you make about immigration to western europe are ill informed. Have more children? I intend to have none and that is my business and not society's or the government's. Not saying this is your agenda, but the most active proponents of larger families have always been fascists (cf Nazi Germany or Fascist Italy). Just my 2 cents, Chris |
Posted By: Karen Shelton
Date Posted: May 18, 2003 at 11:55am
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Hi Chris, I totally agree with you from a philosophical as well as personal point of view. I made a conscious decision when I was in my 20s to not have children. Even in my early 20s I was a workaholic maniac and driven beyond belief. I would work nonstop for as long as 3 days straight w/out sleep. I watched my friends over the years try to juggle careers and kids and struggle with both. I have devoted my life to my career and felt that I would only do a half assed job of being a parent if I tried since I knew that I would always have this career drive. So I directed my maternal urges towards my nieces and nephews and the kids of my best friends. Of couse my two companies are my "babies" as are the people who visit HairBoutique.com. Anyway, needless to say, my decision has netted me a lot of unusual and sometimes negative responses. I love children but felt I couldn't be a good parent while being a workaholic manic. That was my choice. I don't judge anyone else for their own personal decisions but I have been criticized, attacked and pitied for not having kids. Oh well. Such is life. :-) And I might add that I have never had any regrets about my choices. Ultimately everyone needs to be true to who they are and their chosen lifepath. Best wishes, Karen !$ Shab` dbe ,%4 b` , 8bp - )%! )-% !$ -,$`r /2 |
Posted By: KathyAnn
Date Posted: May 18, 2003 at 12:06pm
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*Chris. I really don't think Brent said people should have unusually large families, but they should have enough children so they don't depopulate, which would cause huge economic problems. If you have read anything about west Europe you know that in a few years because they aren't having enough children they will have far too many old people compared to the number of young workers and their social security system will eventually collapse as they will be unable to pay for all the old people without enough young taxpayers. They will be plunged into poverty as they will have to dramtically increase taxes on their workers severely lowering their standard of living and will probably have to cut all forms of government social benefits. I have worked in various aspects of business and finance and I know this to be true, I know how financial things work. * Having read some of Brent's posts he mentioned that he is a White Guy married to an Asian woman. He also seems to be very tolerant of gays and lesbians, which as a lesbian woman, I appreciate. I hardly think he is a fascist. Nor are the Scandinavian governments who pay people to have more children fascist, in fact they are some of the most socially liberal, socialistic governments in the world. *Many of my fellow gays and lesbians won't admit this but having children is a "normal" and yes a "healthy" function of being an adult.* I am certainly not saying everyone has to have kids, I respect single childless people or couples without children, {be they hetrosexual or homosexual}, just as I respect people with kids, but thankfully many people have decided to have children otherwise there would be no humans, which would make the world a pretty dull place. *I like people myself. *****Having kids isn't for everyone but I know the joy that Tina and I get from her 5 year old daughter. *She is a joy! |
Posted By: KathyAnn
Date Posted: May 18, 2003 at 12:10pm
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Karen. *You do a great job with this website and with your career. I hope what I have written is not any sort of putdown on you, or Chris, or anyone else who have decided to be childless.* I am a lesbian woman, and even though I look and act "normal" I have faced discrimination due to my sexual preference. *Please understand I am not judging anyone. |
Posted By: Karen Shelton
Date Posted: May 18, 2003 at 2:17pm
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Dear KathyAnn, Thank you for your post although I did not feel you were judging me. Nor did I feel that Chris was calling anyone fascist. I can't speak for Chris but I was just posting in response to his statement about his choice not to have kids. I applaud your lifestyle as I applaud all lifestyles regardless of what "box" they fit into. I have a dear friend who is living life as a transsexual waiting to go through surgery and she has taught me a lot about living life outside of the norm. I lost a family member to AIDS many years ago and have many same sex couple friends. I always look for a person's soul and inner self when I make friends and do not care if they are old, young, what color their skin is, their sexual preference or how their body looks. It is very liberating and I cherish all the people that are in my life in some way. As far as any of the other posters here at HairTalk, we (Jeff and I) have suffered through some terrible times in the past with trolls who posted only to anger and upset people, a wide range of spammers, hackers and deliberate virus attackers. We just suffered through a horrible 48 hours dealing with a virus attack of huge proportions. If a person is serious about participating from an honorable position they will register as member. If they don't I continue to view them with rightful suspicion. I will say that I have zero tolerance for anyone that posts what appears to be deliberate attempts to attack, rile or cause discension on the HairTalk boards. Although some may not agree with my stance, history has taught me that the only way to deal with trolls is to block them from the boards. They are welcome to go somewhere else. I have dedicated every spare minute of my life since 1997 to HairBoutique.com, which was started with my own hard earned money and is still 100%supported from our store sales. So yes, I do take this seriously and hopefully my willingness to act against trolls has made HairTalk a safe and good place to post. Thanks again for your post. Best wishes, Karen !$ Shab` dbe ,%4 b` , 8bp - )%! )-% !$ -,$`r /2 |
Posted By: Beatnik Guy
Date Posted: May 18, 2003 at 6:17pm
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Thanks, Karen. And KathyAnn, I too have no intention to judge. One quick point though... "If you have read anything about west Europe"; I've done better than that, I've lived in western Europe my entire life and have travelled extensively there. :o) Chris |
Posted By: KathyAnn
Date Posted: May 18, 2003 at 7:38pm
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*Chris I don't pretend to know more about west Europe than you or others that live there. I have been there twice in the last five years on vacation, once for nearly a month. I have been to most of the countries in western Europe. I loved vacationing there, that is why I went there twice.* I also don't think in any way are Americans superior to west Europeans. *There are differences between America and western Europe though, that is for sure. *England seemed the most like America to me, I mean the people's mentality and attitudes, not just language, {since just about every country I went to there, many people spoke English}. The country I liked the best was Ireland. I was absolutely enchanted by the place; it's beauty, the kind people, the music in the pubs, I was charmed by Ireland.{Darn ! I don't have a drop of Irish blood, but I felt like a long lost cousin when I was there!}. The countries of the European continent seemed very different than America to me. Not better or worse, just different. Talking with people there and reading the English language press there I know that some of the biggest issues in countries like Germany, Italy, Belgium, and Holland are immigrant issues. There was alot of talk about Russians, Albanians, Turks and so forth bringing more crime and unemployment to west Europe{and I know they have fairly high unemployment already there}. * Another big issue was expanding the European Union to include all of east Europe. This was also a very contentious issue. It was very clear to me that each country in west Europe has their own language and culture, which, quite rightly, they want to preserve. In America everybody from wherever their ancestors are from just learn English and become Americans. But we are a fairly new country made up of immigrants, we don't have an old time traditional language and culture like the west Europeans. America often seems like it has almost no tradition at all at times, like we just invent our culture as we go along. Europe really does have a great, and many centuries old, traditional culture, which is really cool, that is beautiful, the traditonal culture!* But it can also make it harder to absorb vast east European areas{ like Turkey, Russia, the Ukraine, Poland, and especially the war torn Balkan states}, into west Europe. Not only the cultural and language differences but also east Europe is so much poorer economically than west Europe. Some parts of the old Soviet Union, the Balkans, and Turkey have genuinely third world standards of living. It isn't so easy to bring in and integrate dozens of poor countries with 400 million people in them.* So the whole idea of making the European Union too much bigger was extremely controversial. Almost everyone in west Europe I talked to about it thought west Europe should try to help east Europe, but no one I talked to thought that large areas of east Europe should be brought into the European Union, {at least not right now}, or that large numbers of immigrants from east Europe be brought in. The surveys and polls done in Europe indicate this as well, that this is the feelings of a majority of west Europeans. I have read this in the British, European and American papers. * This is different than America because the U.S. is really a continent in itself, it is a huge land area with a large and growing population. Europe is dozens of smaller countries, each with their own language, culture and traditions. America is not better than Europe or visa-versa. * But they are different. Europe has much more tradition to defend and protect and they obviously have very strong feelings, quite rightly, about their traditions. *****And as I mentioned before, there are other differences too. But I emphatically am not judging anyone. I am glad different parts of the world are different from each other. Variety is the spice of life as they say! Karen. Thank you for being so understanding. I was actually not going to even mention that I am a lesbian and in a relationship with a woman, but I decided a few years ago that I am a "normal" person in my own way and I wasn't going to hide in the closet anymore. Now, without being obnoxious about it I hope, I let people know I am a lesbian and that I am not an extremist of any sort or forcing my beliefs or lifestyle on to them. * I have to be myself though. If people reject me because I am lesbian well I guess I just won't associate with them all that much. You learn who your friends really are. |
Posted By: uzma
Date Posted: May 18, 2003 at 8:18pm
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Hi KathyAnn I just wanted to welcome you to this community and extend the hand/arm/shoulder of friendship. Hope you post often and enjoy your time here. Hugs. Uzma ), R '. `p % |
Posted By: KathyAnn
Date Posted: May 18, 2003 at 9:30pm
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*Wow, Thanks uzma that's sweet of you! I appreciate your warm welcome. Best wishes! |
Posted By: LiliBeach
Date Posted: May 19, 2003 at 1:31am
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My 2 cents worth, I had an assistant once who wore many numerous piercings, tatoos and muti-colored hair. I had a talk with her once because she was really down about the way some of the clients were reacting to her look. My speech went something like this...... "I know you are new to the business and you are very young (18) but sometimes people have set opinions about things that we cannot change their minds about. I think you are a wonderful person, you care about everyone and everything around you. You have a very soft heart. You are creative beyond anyones means and I admire you for artistic expression, and wish I could be more like you. People tend to assume things because of the way you look, for instance, I am overweight and as you know it does not affect my self esteem what so ever. God did not create everyone to look the same or be the same, and he did not make any mistakes, therefore every person is beautiful. Our job is to bring out the beauty both outward and inward appearance. People assume that I sit around all day and stuff my face with food, never getting out and moving. While as you and I both know that is not true. I eat very healthy, take lots of vitamins and work out at the gym at least 3-4 times a week. But when society looks at me and I tell them this they usually ar thinking "yea right". Well thats their problem. Bottom line is, you cannot change others opinions of you or any issue and you can kill yourself trying. All you can do is KNOW who you are and that YOU are very special and GOD loves you just the way you are." This did make her feel alot better. Another example is, in our medium to small size town, there is one of the 5 high schools in our county that uses the mascot "Rebel", a confedrate soilder. They have at every ballgame and on their cars the confederate flag waving in all its glory. Every one has their own opinion about this flag. Need less to say for years this has brought up HUGE controversy. Being in the south, there are alot of people who are very proud of this flag. They feel it stands for the pride they feel living in the south, kinda a rebel against "city-life", they do not feel it is a racist symbol nor use it as such. However, their is the other side of it that, yes, the KKK use it as a racist symbol therefore many feel that it reperesents the desire to have slavery back. Everytime the controversy rises I am asked my opinion of the subject. I always reply......"I know and you know what the flag carrier is intentions are about the flag ( the pride thing) BUT we cannot change the way people feel about it and therefore they should NOT use it. I grew up in a large city not far from here and when my high school played this one, a student made his way over to our bleachers and started waving the rebel flag. Being a well diversifyed high school this un welcome visitor was kicked and thrown done the bleachers and was very hurt. So see when you visit other places, they do not understand, they only understand what they have been exposed to and you cannot chage other peoples minds. You can however respect their opinion and for the students own saftey not fly it" I always get the reply...."wow, I did not think of it that way" Kintaro, People will have their own opinion of you no matter what you look like. The important thing is that you feel good about who you are and how God designed you, because God makes NO mistakes.  !- A `badera -, , @ )20`p )2$-!) !-,- )!4 r $(
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Posted By: Kintaro
Date Posted: May 19, 2003 at 9:27pm
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Please lock this thread. As of post possibly 22 or in that area, the topic of conversation was birthrates. And then this last post. Time to quote from it. God did not *cough*cut-a-piece-out*cough* make any mistakes. You got that right. Now stop shoving such a concept down my throat. That sentence is true both ways. If he exists, he's magically perfect (IPU complex) and if he doesn't, well, nonexistence makes that concept unable to make mistakes. I'm a moderate atheist, I'm not shoving my lack of belief down your throat, but kick me, and I'll kick you back. And even w/o the divine references, it isn't even on topic. The topic was about people using FEMININE AND MASCULINE as BUZZWORDS to make themselves magically feel better when they have an array of words that actually mean something to use in its place. That's like using God to justify doing good. Why not do something simply because it is good ? --- Simple. People need to glorify themselves, and that type of egoism makes me sick. Thanks to "most" of you for participating in this thread when it still meant something. (! A al` eb (% $b` /6(bb !.$ ,-$! -- % ( Bp $ |
Posted By: KathyAnn
Date Posted: May 19, 2003 at 10:21pm
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Yes Kintaro this thread got a little off topic. I'm sure that's happened before. *As far as someone making a reference to God, when I was your age I was a hard core atheist and didn't like it when people mentioned God or religion to justify themselves or their "good deeds" or whatever, so I know what you mean. I've changed a little since then though, I'm not so sure I know everything and have all the answers, {which could be, if I'm lucky, the beginning of wisdom}, and I am much less offended if someone makes a reference to God or religion. *One other thing I am sure you will find to be true. Many, many people believe in God or some sort of greater power and get a great deal of faith and hope from it, especially in times of terrible grief and sorrow. And religion in fact does help people behave well and do good things for others, like run charities for the less fortunate. Maybe you think they are silly to have to justify their good works with religion but if it helps them I say, so be it, who am I do put them down. *I can assure you that you will hear about God again many more times in your life. *Religion is very prevelant, apparently, in the human condition. If you feel you need to "correct" someone every time they bring up religion, you are going to be doing alot of "correcting". *****The communists tried for decades in many countries to get rid of religion and it just came back stronger than ever in those countries. The more they tried to get rid of it, or "correct" it the stronger it seemed to get. Atheists can't understand why people need to believe in something like God, religion, or a larger power, but many people do, that is for sure. |
Posted By: uzma
Date Posted: May 20, 2003 at 5:45am
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In my humble opinion, the intention of Lili's post was to support and reassure. We all have a personal philosophy of life and can only interact with each other from this subjective perspective. Some choose to impose their values and belief systems on others, be it subtly or overtly. Let's not go there. I re-assert: It is the intention that is important, not the philosophical framework. Forget the God-bit if it offends you. See past it and through it to the simple expression of care by another human being. ), R '. `p % |
Posted By: Isla Q.
Date Posted: May 20, 2003 at 8:43am
Posted By: KathyAnn Date Posted: May 20, 2003 at 10:12am
Posted By: Elissa Date Posted: May 20, 2003 at 10:15am
Posted By: Isla Q. Date Posted: May 20, 2003 at 10:34am
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``( $0 ( @ d $
But Kintaro's condescending attitude to people that he sees as "conformists" are typical of a kid his age."