Navy Question
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URL: /forum_posts.php?TID=5334
Printed Date: Dec 26, 2024 at 9:45am
Topic: Navy Question
Posted By: PotatosMcGee
Subject: Navy Question
Date Posted: Dec 17, 2001 at 12:33am
My younger sister is joining the Navy next month, and among her concerns is what to do with her hair. She knows she`ll have to cut it, but she wants to know if she should do it now or let them. Her hair is real wavy and down past her shoulder blades. I have no idea wha to tell her, any advice?
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Replies: 49
Posted By: PotatosMcGee
Date Posted: Dec 17, 2001 at 12:33am
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My younger sister is joining the Navy next month, and among her concerns is what to do with her hair. She knows she`ll have to cut it, but she wants to know if she should do it now or let them. Her hair is real wavy and down past her shoulder blades. I have no idea wha to tell her, any advice?
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Posted By: wozziewoo
Date Posted: Dec 17, 2001 at 1:33am
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That really depends on what she wants. If she gets it cut beforehand she may have some say in what kind of style she gets. If she waits, she will just get the standard recruit haircut. Also if her hair was long enough & she wanted to do anything with it, such as keep it or donate it, she should get it cut beforehand, as she will have no option if she waits. Nevr having been in the military myself, there`s not much more I can say, I hope this helps.
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Posted By: Waggy
Date Posted: Dec 17, 2001 at 3:53pm
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I don`t know squat personally - I do have a friend who had to cut hers when she joined and then wore it waist length - she said you don`t have to cut it anymore - just wear it up...wags ! ) Q`cd`d ,,$0b /4 bp +.,,%!%!
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Posted By: dsull
Date Posted: Dec 18, 2001 at 2:14am
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Reply to message: viewthread.asp?forum=AMB%5FAP804060353&id=3154&page=1#21.3154.1 - 21.3154.1 Dear Potato:
Wags is quite correct.........your sister will NOT have to cut her hair, as long as she can demonstrate the ability to put it up in a secure updo........there are several such dos that are very quick and easy to maintain......Dennis$!%,
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Posted By: Jennifer
Date Posted: Dec 18, 2001 at 8:59am
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Reply to message: viewthread.asp?forum=AMB%5FAP804060353&id=3154&page=1#21.3162.1 - 21.3162.1 quote:
dsull originally wrote:
Reply to message: viewthread.asp?forum=AMB%5FAP804060353&id=3154&page=1#21.3154.1 - 21.3154.1 Dear Potato:
Wags is quite correct.........your sister will NOT have to cut her hair, as long as she can demonstrate the ability to put it up in a secure updo........there are several such dos that are very quick and easy to maintain......Dennis
>>>>your sister will NOT have to cut her hair, as long as she can demonstrate the ability to put it up in a secure updo........there are several such dos that are very quick and easy to maintain.
So much for "equal" rights -- men get no such choice.
Jennifer
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Posted By: duke
Date Posted: Dec 18, 2001 at 12:27pm
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Reply to message: viewthread.asp?forum=AMB%5FAP804060353&id=3154&page=1#21.3168.1 - 21.3168.1 Will she not have to cut it to a certain length during basic training? She`d better check with her
recruiting office. Shouldn`t she get such information from them?
Yes, this is sexist. In the Netherlands, all soldiers can have long hair as long as they keep it
secured in some way.
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Posted By: dianefromcanada
Date Posted: Dec 18, 2001 at 6:00pm
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Reply to message: viewthread.asp?forum=AMB%5FAP804060353&id=3154&page=1#21.3154.1 - 21.3154.1 Your younger sister must have had a manuel that tells her what they expect. They have diagrams that shows what is acceptable or not.$!!, B`gla`d`d
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Posted By: dianefromcanada
Date Posted: Dec 18, 2001 at 6:06pm
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Duke the training is pretty tense . I can`t understand how anyone would have time for their hair. Personally I don`t care what they do in Netherlands support your country for goodness sakes. Being a soldier in our country is something to be proud of and we have a good reputation in this world. Sorry but this is starting to bug me being a daughter of an army man. I personally find that having long hair in certain hostile environment only causes us to be more victims because the enemy can easily grab us. If you reallly studied what you are complaining about you will notice that women in the army in our country cannot have a certain lenght of hair and men do have some choices in hairstyles. $!!, B`gla`d`d
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Posted By: Waggy
Date Posted: Dec 18, 2001 at 8:56pm
Nonsense - NOONE should have to cut their hair - it`s not required in Israel either. It has nothing to do with safety it`s just a stupid tradition that they are clinging to which serves no purpose now.
If the hair is a danger I`m sure the individual can decide that on their own and act accordingly...wags ! ) Q`cd`d ,,$0b /4 bp +.,,%!%!
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Posted By: dianefromcanada
Date Posted: Dec 18, 2001 at 10:04pm
Well it is very obvious why haircutting wouldn`t be required in Israel, Waggy. Why would you bring that up? It doesn`t belong.
IN everyday life we long hair people get in all kinds of embarrassing and funny situation like slamming the car door and leaving the hair out of the car etc. Filing cabinet, plastic plants grabbing our hair etc. Years ago we had a whole section on these situations and even Karen our webmaster can easilly tell you embarrassing funnymoments. Being a long hair woman myself I know how long hair could easily get in the way of duty.Why do you think that police women have only a certain length of hair? You will never see someone with knee lenght . I seriously can`t see the practicality of crawling around the bush, the woods, avoiding the enemy and fixing the hairbun all the way time and aiming all the same time. I don`t know how many times I can say that I have been caught by branches in the woods and I had a braid in my hair or I was caught because of my bun. We are talking about life or dealth. This is not fun and games. This is not videos games. These are people who have seriously taken their job to save their country seriously and fixing buns and fashions in the bush doesn`t belong. I happen to know lots of females in that sort of field. I`m around them and know what is involved. There is a time and place for everything. I am not going to bother with this any further. Obviously you never had long hair or you would understand. I enjoy wrestling, paint ball shooting and it is tough to just play and have long hair. I We will never agree as I see how obviously it is by experience. There is a reason to laws. It is easy to see that something isn`t neccessary when one never experience the reason to why the law exists.$!!, B`gla`d`d
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Posted By: wozziewoo
Date Posted: Dec 18, 2001 at 11:36pm
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I know it`s not exactly the same situation & it was a movie but has anyone here seen the movie GI Jane. That movie says it all about the situation. When she went in, no one made her do anything to it, but it got in the way & she took care of it herself. That`s ultimating why. I`m not sure why but flight attendants have a similar rule about hair lenght as well.
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Posted By: duke
Date Posted: Dec 19, 2001 at 6:24pm
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Reply to message: viewthread.asp?forum=AMB%5FAP804060353&id=3154&page=1#21.3179.1 - 21.3179.1 A fine muddle this thread is becoming! I thought men at least had to cut their hair in Israel, and that
a draftee has decided to challenge this. I thought Canadian women did not have to cut their hair,
but even if it can`t exceed a certain length, it sure can be long enough for a good bun.
Diane, I am VERY proud of our military, and our country, but there is always room for improvement.
Rather than saying hair should be a certain length, why not do the same thing as the Netherlands and
say hair can be any length if it can be held in place. Long hair can be put in a tight bun. (military women do it all the time). And say that you can`t do this and it has to be a certain length, like past the shoulders. Men should have the same right. I find it difficult to believe that wars can be lost just because you`re not required to have GI crewcuts!
I don`t know about policewomen. I think the mounties used to make you have short hair, for men at any rate, but changed the rules because Indians wanted to keep their traditional braids. I`d like to see
that in the Canadian and American military, too. At any rate, crewcuts and buzzcuts are needless, and
as for the idea of everyone being the same, your fatigues are enough for that. The military may
require you taking orders, but it should not treat you like property or a robot. You`re not that, but a
human.
There`s been another thread about flight attendants, and that I don`t understand. That obviously
varies from airline to airline. It`s a wierd world we live in. Too many rules, even though were in the
21st century...
Diane, do you know about the style options for men in the CAF today? Do they have to have crewcuts/buzzcuts or at least tapered cuts? What about facial hair? I saw a picture of an American soldier in Afghanistan today, and he had a mustache and goatee. Kewl! Is this allowed now?
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Posted By: duke
Date Posted: Dec 19, 2001 at 6:25pm
Oh, one more thing. Let your sister ask if she can put her hair under a shorter wig. That`s what a guy
whose son`s stone-age school wanted him to cut his rat tail did when he was in the navy! :)
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Posted By: Waggy
Date Posted: Dec 20, 2001 at 1:35am
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Reply to message: viewthread.asp?forum=AMB%5FAP804060353&id=3154&page=1#21.3177.1 - 21.3177.1 `Xcuse me - but first ??? "posted on 18-Dec-2001 10:04:11 PM
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Reply to message: 21.3176.1
Well it is very obvious why haircutting wouldn`t be required in Israel, Waggy. Why would you bring that up? It doesn`t belong.
What the heck is that supposed to mean - I brought it up because it`s true - and why is it "obvious" - it`s not "obvious" to me. And Pardon me but I`ll decide what I think belongs.
As to my hair - you don`t know me from Adam - and you are wrong to boot.
WoozieWoo - I think you have it on the nose - if it becomes a problem people will take care of it as they see fit themselves. We don`t need regulation imposed by other for situations that don`t have any sense and are there simply as a way of bullying and throwing unnecessary weight at the people. Keep to what is important...wags ! ) Q`cd`d ,,$0b /4 bp +.,,%!%!
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Posted By: Van
Date Posted: Dec 20, 2001 at 9:16pm
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my best friend joined the army a few years ago, and the army has much higher standards and rules then the navy does (as i know people in both branches) in basic training, when your officers tell you to get ready, and you have 4 minutes to do so. if she can put her hair up in a bun in this amount of time along with getting dressed properly, then she doesnt have to cut it. however, if she doesnt want to do that, girls hair has to be above the collar if they want to wear it down during basic. so a cute bob would do and still has many ways of styling it. as for after basic, they can have it any way they want to. i know girls with waiste length hair in the army. hope this helps.
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Posted By: Van
Date Posted: Dec 20, 2001 at 9:18pm
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oh yeah, if she does choose to cut it, have her do it now, for when she joins any haircuts will be performed quickly and messy, ive heard horror stories.
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Posted By: Jennifer
Date Posted: Dec 21, 2001 at 9:46am
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Reply to message: viewthread.asp?forum=AMB%5FAP804060353&id=3154&page=1#21.3154.1 - 21.3154.1 It seems to me that the number 1 reason for serving in the military is to defend one`s country. That`s a very serious business. Part of the reason for uniform clothing and haircuts is to create a feeling of unity among the members. Individuality is a good thing in most instances, but in the military, it`s the cohesiveness of the unit that is largely responsible for its success. You have to work together as a team -- that includes wearing the same outfits and haircuts. Quite honestly, anyone who is so attached to his hair that he can`t bare to cut it probably shouldn`t be in the military. It isn`t a beauty contest! Don`t get me wrong, I LOVE long hair and am a strong supporter of it! But in the military, it`s an entirely different business.
Also, if women want men`s roles in the military, they should have to act like men -- and yes, that includes haircuts. You can`t just take the parts of "equal rights" that benefit one the most.
Long hair and styled hair quite frankly have no place in the deadly serious business of national security, in my opinion.
"Hold on!! The war can`t start now -- my hair isn`t put up in a bun yet!"
Jennifer
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Posted By: duke
Date Posted: Dec 21, 2001 at 1:33pm
Yes, I see what you mean, Jennifer, but I must re-iterate, haircuts are not essential to this. How
were wars won before hair was part of the dress code? You can`t force a feeling of unity, you can
just try to stimulate it. At any rate, a basic uniform does this. I don`t care even about, like, the same
color socks, but your hair is a part of your body, even if a renewable one. I don`t want the people
who defend my country to be robots, just well-disciplined.
This attatched to your hair idea is also something that I take issue with. Aren`t you attatched to
the color of your eyes, the length of your members, the shape of your nose etc? Disfigurements
unfortunately do happen, but that doesn`t make people automatically not care about their body. I
don`t care if hair is renewable. It still grows on your body and is part of you. No the army is not a
beauty contest, but it shouldn`t feel a special license to be an uglification process.
I also think this is silly. Military personnel of either sex should act like "people", not like "men". Just
as I think it`s unfair to give female soldiers buzzcuts, so I think, as said above, that men should
be allowed long hair, as long as you put it up.
Fun fact: in the British army, from somewhere in the 18th century until 1809, you had to have long hair which you`d braid and at least on ceremonial occasions, you had to put this sloppy pomade on it and
powder it with flour or something, as if you were a "gentleman of quality". If your hair was not long enough for this, in at least one regiment, you had to acquire an extension the same color as your hair.,
and attatch it. So why don`t we stay away from extremes, and enforce only those hair rules that are
absolutely necessary? :) :D :)
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Posted By: Waggy
Date Posted: Dec 21, 2001 at 3:16pm
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Reply to message: viewthread.asp?forum=AMB%5FAP804060353&id=3154&page=1#21.3201.1 - 21.3201.1 Ah Jennifer, you said "posted on 21-Dec-2001 9:46:52 AM
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Reply to message: 21.3154.1
It seems to me that the number 1 reason for serving in the military is to defend one`s country. "
That is not correct. REasons are - it is required (in some countries) and it`s a good career move (in most countries).
Most people who join the military never see combat. Most countries don`t even allow women into combat.
And as DUKE pointed out so well - in most countries the same goes for men as women and in the US it`s really just a tradition that makes no actual sense...wags
! ) Q`cd`d ,,$0b /4 bp +.,,%!%!
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Posted By: dianefromcanada
Date Posted: Dec 22, 2001 at 10:53am
. Most countries don`t even allow women into combat.
Where do you get your information Waggy? We have a museum over here and we are proud to have the first air fighter in the world that was rewarded many pins etc and guess what she was a woman and very beautiful. Check it out in our Canadian history. Canada is a country that women fight. Equal rights. She was around before you were probably born.
There is a whole write about these women that people admire, thier picture etc. I am starting to think you don`t know your history especially when you brought up Israel.
It is not required in Canada to join the army. People join because they want to serve their country. I wouldn`t say its a good career move. Sure the governent give education but the pay isn`t good at first and sure you might have a chance to have a job afterwards like maybe work in the Canadian Post Office. But you must be prepare to go into combat. And seriously Waggy where have you been with the news these days. ONe of our best female air fighters come from my home town and the whole town is hoping that she is safe. It`s on CNN and everything about us, our part etc. Turn on the TV for goodness sakes .................. One of my female classmates went into combat in other countries. GEt your remote and start watching history. Canada is a country you know. Look on the map lol.
My father didn`t join the army because of a career move nor did my grandfather nor will my son that is seriously thinking about it. All our War war 11 veterans were serious about our country. OUr city is totallly cleared up because of September 11 and everyone is serious about protecting our countries. YOur attitude about the army is seriously starting to peave me. You should thank God that not everyone has this attitude and you are safe because someone didn`t join the army for a career change but to save your butt.$!!, B`gla`d`d
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Posted By: Waggy
Date Posted: Dec 22, 2001 at 4:44pm
Diane dear!! - I suggest you take your own advice.
Where do you get off thinking when I refer to "most Countries" I was thinking of Canada. I lived there for many year. Canada is just one little country among many and does not respresent the World.
As to Israel - I also have relatives there. And I suggest YOU start getting yourself educated before making sanctimonious and ill informed remarks. You are the one in need of information.
My information is correct, if I`m not sure I say so - I have lived all over the World.
I really don`t care what your friends and family did or why - you don`t represent me and you are not doing anything for MY butt.
Save it for someone who cares...wags
! ) Q`cd`d ,,$0b /4 bp +.,,%!%!
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Posted By: Jennifer
Date Posted: Dec 23, 2001 at 11:32pm
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Reply to message: viewthread.asp?forum=AMB%5FAP804060353&id=3154&page=1#21.3208.1 - 21.3208.1 I said, "It seems to me that the number 1 reason for serving in the military is to defend one`s country."
And you replied, "That is not correct. REasons are - it is required (in some countries) and it`s a good career move (in most countries)."
I`m afraid this will be news to the military! I understand that in some countries serving is mandatory, not optional, but the reason for serving is the same.
Concerning your second point, the military is not "set up" to provide careers for people! Its mission is to defend the country! And as such, individual fashion and individuality cannot take priority over national security.
Jennifer
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Posted By: Jennifer
Date Posted: Dec 24, 2001 at 12:07am
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Reply to message: viewthread.asp?forum=AMB%5FAP804060353&id=3154&page=1#21.3203.1 - 21.3203.1 Duke (I hit send too quickly and to my amazement, I could not edit the post)
You said, "This attatched to your hair idea is also something that I take issue with. Aren`t you attatched to
the color of your eyes, the length of your members, the shape of your nose etc? Disfigurements
unfortunately do happen, but that doesn`t make people automatically not care about their body. I
don`t care if hair is renewable. It still grows on your body and is part of you. No the army is not a
beauty contest, but it shouldn`t feel a special license to be an uglification process."
How on earth can you equate losing one`s hair to losing one`s sight or a limb?! Although we certainly all have individual hair preferences, a short haircut will not effect our bodies the way losing one of our senses will. Although I personally would HATE short hair on me, I think it is a gross injustice to those who truly are handicapped to call it a disfigurement.
"So why don`t we stay away from extremes, and enforce only those hair rules that are absolutely necessary?"
Apparently those who make the rules in the military feel it is essential. Long hair is simply not practical and can get in the way of someone in the military. Yes, in the field, there is an increased incidence of lice. Also, in hand-to-hand combat, there is the likelihood of an opponent grabbing one`s hair. There simply is no time to "style" or put up long hair in either boot camp or in a conflict situation. Long hair flies in the wind and actually could obstruct vision during a crucial moment. There are probably hundreds more reasons that I don`t know.
"Military personnel of either sex should act like "people", not like `men`."
Very diplomatic of you. Tell that to bin Laden and perhaps we can all sit down as "people" and clear up any misunderstandings between our countries....
The military isn`t a game of social experimentation to see how long hair can be before it "gets in the way." It`s deadly serious business and the fewer "fuss" factors there are, the more the soldiers can get down to the business of doing their jobs. They shouldn`t have to worry about hair in the least.
Oh, about long hair in the military in centuries past. It`s true, obviously that soldiers at various times wore their hair at various lengths. It`s also true that leeches were used as medicine and anyone even suspected of being a witch in Salem was burned at the stake. Historical facts don`t necessarily make them smart or well thought-out facts. An awfully lot has happened in years gone by that I`m certainly glad don`t happen today!
Jennifer
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Posted By: Waggy
Date Posted: Dec 24, 2001 at 2:17am
Jennifer - you are just completely wrong - most of the people who have served in the military have never seen combat. Most of the time there IS no combat to go to.
As far as a career move goes - don`t be ridiculous. The military is very secure and has great retirement and benefits plus you get to travel. Most of the people I know in the military (and I know plenty) did not all of a sudden get a surge of patriotism during a war time, they chose the military for benefits.
I repeat - the Israeli army is one of the best around - they don`t require anyone to keep their hair cut and they DO see combat on a much more regular basis.
You are so over hyping "being in the military" it`s ridiculous to enforce rules that MIGHT apply to an emergency situation when most of the military personnel is never in those type of situations...wags ! ) Q`cd`d ,,$0b /4 bp +.,,%!%!
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Posted By: Jennifer
Date Posted: Dec 24, 2001 at 10:39am
>>>Jennifer - you are just completely wrong - most of the people who have served in the military have never seen combat. Most of the time there IS no combat to go to.
I never said most military people have seen combat. But doesn`t a good defense require being READY for the unexpected?
>>As far as a career move goes - don`t be ridiculous.
Again, I didn`t say that the military was not a good career move. I said it didn`t exist merely for the purpose of providing a good career! I think you need to read carefully what is written.
>>You are so over hyping "being in the military" it`s ridiculous to enforce rules that MIGHT apply to an emergency situation when most of the military personnel is never in those type of situations.
But, if they aren`t ready for the unexpected, they`re not much good then, are they? When an emergency happens, there`s simply no time to make provisions. They must be in place ahead of time to make things run as smoothly as possible.
Jennifer
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Posted By: dianefromcanada
Date Posted: Dec 24, 2001 at 11:31am
At first Waggy I thought your information about Isreal was correct . NowI have to really question your information because every Isreal news clip I see on CNN and other programs shows the Isreal men in the army with short hair. They do have beards but short hair. So whats the deal here? You claimed that they don`t need to cut their hair, this might be right but the reality is that they choose to do so for the obvioius reasons that you are argueing against. That should tell you something. I am sure that the whole Isreal army doesn`t cut their hair at that moment for our viewing on the news. I haven`t seen one of them with long hair in the newspaper, on the internet or whatever so this tells me that they choose to cut their hair because of the obvious reasons.
I will also add that I have come across some very nice people from Isreal that I have worked closely with during my years serving the community. The young girls had long hair but the wives had shorter hair and all the husbands I met had short hair. Today around our city and I see that the girls are cutting their hair.
Besides showing that you are short tempered you should reallly learn and be current. I am very multi cultural person who had the pleasure of hearing and experiencing other cultures. There is a lot of beauty in every culture.
YOu are entitle to your comments but I find it very disrespectful to say your comments about the reason why people join the army and your attitude toward them. It seems to me that you have no knowlege or experience being near the army or you assume what their thoughts are.I also don`t feel you respect women who do join the army. Maybe its is your background but beleive me women have been in combat and are prepared. You are living in the states where women are involved. You certainly don`t respect my friends who go off and save your butt by your previous comments. Obviously you have never been around people who have decided to give their lives to protect you. aGain it is very obvious that you don`t have long hair because you would know what problems can occur. Your Isreal army friends understand this. I have long hair so has Jennifer etc. There are reasons to laws. I think for Christmas someone needs to buy you a TV so you can be with the current events around the world.
Also you argue with Jennifer how it doesn`t make sense since most of them never seem combat. Let`s take a fireman for example. On their day off they continue to work out and when they are on duty they work out even though there is no fire. Always prepared for the worse. Always in shape. In the army maybe some of them will never see combat and hopefully more in the future will never but since Sept 11 things have change. We all know that they work out and are always prepared for the worse mentally and physically including haircuts. It wouldn`t make sense to not be prepared for the worse 100% of the time. Besides mocking me of my friends you should thank and respect an army person that you meet next time because without them you wouldn`t be safe in the USA. Hair is nothing to miss when lives at stake.$!!, B`gla`d`d
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Posted By: duke
Date Posted: Dec 24, 2001 at 12:02pm
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Reply to message: viewthread.asp?forum=AMB%5FAP804060353&id=3154&page=1#21.3229.1 - 21.3229.1 Jen, I meant the long powdered hair historical example as an example of an extreme. I don`t think that
you`re necessarily right when you say that they have so many practical reasons for insisting on short hair.
Note that women can often have long hair if it is kept up tightly. I think it is a part of the esprit de corps
indoctrination, possibly also a way to degrade you at first (Eg. Elvis Presley had to have a crewcut in
boot camp, but later could grow it longer, though sideburns and quiff were OUT). It may also be a part
of machismo, and also a result of the fact that things don`t change easily.
If you keep your hair up tightly, it is not that hard in a combat situation.
I didn`t mean that handicapped people were disfigured, but that just because hair grows doesn`t mean that
it is a trivial part of your body. It just doesn`t hurt when you cut it.
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Posted By: dianefromcanada
Date Posted: Dec 24, 2001 at 1:58pm
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Reply to message: viewthread.asp?forum=AMB%5FAP804060353&id=3154&page=1#21.3230.1 - 21.3230.1 Duke, Elvis Presley is my hero. My love. The most beautiful man that ever live and one heck of a singer.......... I have almost all his songs. He also looks good on black velvet right about the sofa in most homes. Hum I wonder where I put mine........
Elvis Presley looked good in a crewcut, sideburns and whatever. I think it should have been illegal for him to join the army because his looks, his voice was probably an illegal weapon of some sorts lol
Seriously will always love that man. Have a good Christmas Duke.$!!, B`gla`d`d
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Posted By: Waggy
Date Posted: Dec 24, 2001 at 4:03pm
Jennifer and Diane - actually it`s you two I have trouble respecting. You are presumptious, incorrect and ill informed. I am not going to bother to counter your arguements because they do not have merit.
You presume to know what I have, think, and need. You presume facts based on a minimal amount of knowledge and have not bothered to inform yourself or ask questions.
To anyone else:
Jewish/Israeli (you can of course, be one without the other, you can also be Jewish ethnicity and be any other religion, or none) people have customs that they follow depending on their personal belief system like everyone else. Many Jewish men do not wear beards and many have long hair, many Jewish young women have long hair, many do not, the do their mandatory time in the military without being told what to do with it. Many orthodex Jewish women cut and cover their hair after they are married, but again many do not.
Back to Jennifer and Diane - it seems to me that your tempers are a bit shorter than mine is since you are the ones that started to segway into the whole tirade of "it`s disrespectful, etc"
In for the long haul...wags ! ) Q`cd`d ,,$0b /4 bp +.,,%!%!
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Posted By: duke
Date Posted: Dec 27, 2001 at 12:48pm
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Reply to message: viewthread.asp?forum=AMB%5FAP804060353&id=3154&page=1#21.3233.1 - 21.3233.1 You have one too, Diane, that`s how I feel about Elvis too. A fascinating man.
Fun fact(oid?): Elvis used his mamma`s curlers when experiminting with his unique styles early on.
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Posted By: Highland Colonel
Date Posted: Dec 28, 2001 at 1:13pm
Funny that I would make my way to a board about hair, but it seems I`ll be posting lots of messages
on it from now on to fulfill my duty. I style myself Colonel John Doe, and am the Commanding
Officer of the Cameron Highlanders, a lobby group that advocates greater respect for human rights.
And though our activities have not CENTERED on hair this far, it is a bona fide sphere for improvement.
Whenever a rule is made up, it should NOT, I repeat, NOT be taken lightly. In this case, I firmly
believe that the military should allow all lengths of hair, as long as it can be put up so that it does not
get in the way of performing one`s functions. In the Camerons, which is organized along military lines,
we deliberately reflect this in the dress code: no rules may prohibit any length of hair or style, as long
as it doesn`t get in the way of your uniform. Thus, you may have a mohawk, but if it is spiked up and
you hat can not firmly cover it, you must do something about it!
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Posted By: dianefromcanada
Date Posted: Dec 28, 2001 at 2:44pm
Well Waggy maybe it all depends on where you live. It is hard to be presumptious, incorrect or ill informed when I am living around largest populated jewish area in Canada. It is tough to not get educated when one lives in such a multi cultural background when your best friends in school in daycare are of a diffirent background etc. and then we all work, party together etc. Just the other day I learned about the Chinese language and how today the reading is so diffirent. Gone are the days of upper and lower Canada you know.
You say that you lived in Canada well you should have been aware of this. This is what Canada is all about.
As an immigrant you are allow to come to our country, practice your faith, religious, your language ,your ways and not be thrown in jail for it. Heck we also have private schools for almost all faiths. It is not frown upon that we learn about diffirent languages being taugh in the home. In my home I know three languages. My son announced that he will learning German etc Canada is probably the only country in the world that stand firmly on those rights. That is what makes Canada so beautiful is the cultures. We can easily walk down a street and feel that we are in Italy etc.
Yes I am very aware that there are many many different forms of the jewish religion. They are following their form of their religion. I say form because it is not clear cut. There are many diffirent groups of religious that all can be told that is jewish but are very diffirent from each other.
Some of the richest jewish people live here as well some of them are my friends. IN fact in the newspaper one of the richest jewish families in this world is planning to save their little town in the province where I live.
You assumed that I didn`t know anything about the jewish background which is false. YOu should know better knowing what Canada is all about. We are multi cultural more than anyone else. We are brought up knowing about each other very early in life.
In my area the men do not wear long hair but have beards but not all. Many doctors here are jewish etc. plus on the News, on CNN , in the news paper and everywhere we the public look the men in Isreal that are fighting do have short hair and have beards. I cannot go against those facts. I haven`t seen one Isreal politician or anyone in the millitary that has long hair. You claimed that they are wearing long hair. It seems to me according to the facts that the isreal men prefer short hair in the military. You came so firmly about your opinion about long hair in the army. YOu also came across so knowleable about the Isreal men wearing long hair in the army( I took your word at the time) yet the facts shows that the men prefer short hair. You come across saying that long hair doesn`t cause problems yet every long hair women could tell you a stupid story about their hair being caught etc.
And the only people that cover their faces here are the arab women. OH by the way I do have a jewish employer and I think she knows what she is all about . My family has been to Isreal a few times and I will go one day when the war is over. Maybe you have travel to many parts of the world but many of the parts of the world lives in our Country and everyday I am in culture and learning more and more. I happen to love the jewish culture among others.
To end this You have to remember that I come from a military family. YOu mocked that. You didn`t respect that.
$!!, B`gla`d`d
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Posted By: Waggy
Date Posted: Dec 28, 2001 at 4:43pm
I mocked it because you USED it as if it makes your personal opinions expert.
I also can`t help but notice that you never fail to capitalize the "C" in canada, but almost always use small letters for Israel and Jewish, tut, tut.
What you see on TV (big new flash here) is not all encompassing!!!
You claim I state that Jewish and Israeli men prefer and have long hair - WRONG. I stated that they may have long hair if they so choose. Then you say that TV proves it as FACT that what I didn`t say in the first place is incorrect. Verrrry short sighted of you.
You claim that all women you know with long hair say it interfers - FINE - BUT, that does NOT apply to all women I know with long hair (including when mine has been super long) that I know, I find long hair much easier to keep "out of the way" unless it is literally buzz cut. I`ve done that too.
I am perfectly willing to respect you if you post in a manner that I find merits respect - I found your last post much better than the first few - we`ll see where it goes.
BTW - where I live has all the benefits of multi culturalizm that you mentioned along with all the rights, so let`s not get into a pissing contest about that one OK...wags ! ) Q`cd`d ,,$0b /4 bp +.,,%!%!
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Posted By: Waggy
Date Posted: Dec 28, 2001 at 4:44pm
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Reply to message: viewthread.asp?forum=AMB%5FAP804060353&id=3154&page=2#21.3257.2 - 21.3257.2 Hi - Highland C. - I think I`m going to like you...wags :=D ! ) Q`cd`d ,,$0b /4 bp +.,,%!%!
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Posted By: Jennifer
Date Posted: Dec 28, 2001 at 10:53pm
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Reply to message: viewthread.asp?forum=AMB%5FAP804060353&id=3154&page=2#21.3263.2 - 21.3263.2 Waggy,
Out of curiosity, how many years have you served in a military unit?
Jennifer
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Posted By: Waggy
Date Posted: Dec 29, 2001 at 2:11am
Jennifer - you first - credentials please. Is that the game???
And shouldn`t you be asking which country???
But actually, what IS the point of that question anyway since we are only talking about where, to our knowledge it is OK for people to keep any length of hair and within what guidelines. You could say we are also discussing what we personally think is reasonable as to how it SHOULD be - I suppose under that premise you could make an arguement that if you haven`t been in the military you don`t know whether or not people should keep their hair, but you`d find disagreement there also, among those who have and have not served with or without long hair.
If you are truly interested in my background and experience, I`ll probably be happy to oblige as I certainly have nothing to hide or be embarrassed about.
But right now my feeling is that you are simply trying to do a oneupsmanship with me. I don`t really care for that game. If I am wrong I`m sure we can correct the situation and get along just fine...wags ! ) Q`cd`d ,,$0b /4 bp +.,,%!%!
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Posted By: Jennifer
Date Posted: Dec 29, 2001 at 8:52pm
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Reply to message: viewthread.asp?forum=AMB%5FAP804060353&id=3154&page=2#21.3269.2 - 21.3269.2 Waggy,
The one-upmanship idea is yours alone. I ask because you seem to inherently know what is best for the military.
I`ll be the very first to admit that I`ve never served. However, two very close relatives of mine have graduated from the US Naval Academy at Annapolis and I have several friends from both the Academy and in the military in general. I have to admit that I mentioned this discussion and was nearly accused of making it up! They couldn`t believe that anyone would actually argue against short haircuts in the military, especially for men. And they also said what I essentially said -- if hair is that important an issue with someone, he has no business being in the military (of his own accord, anyway).
Jennifer
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Posted By: Waggy
Date Posted: Dec 29, 2001 at 10:44pm
Jennifer - back again :=D
you said "The one-upmanship idea is yours alone. I ask because you seem to inherently know what is best for the military."
Contradictory sentences. The second sentence is snide and you know it, therefore, it negates the first sentence.
I can`t help what your friends think. My friends don`t agree and neither do I. If someone CHOOSES to have short hair that`s fine with me, as I`ve stated I had a semi buzz cut myself, but I still think it should be their choice.
As to believing a person doesn`t belong somewhere because they find hair important, come on!!! Is this the new litmus test??!!
It would be nice if you could stop putting different meanings to my words. I never once said that my feelings about what I think hair rules (or any other rules for that matter) should be would keep me or anyone I know from joining and faction of the military, or any other career/lifestyles whatever they choose to be in.
It is not necessary to like or agree with all rules of your chosen endeavor. Or people you choose to "chat" with either, eh?...wags
! ) Q`cd`d ,,$0b /4 bp +.,,%!%!
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Posted By: Jennifer
Date Posted: Dec 30, 2001 at 2:36am
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Reply to message: viewthread.asp?forum=AMB%5FAP804060353&id=3154&page=2#21.3278.2 - 21.3278.2 Waggy,
I suggest you reread your words in this thread. You attach your own spin on others` words, often arguing against what was never said! You later stated as fact that I was ill-informed, yet never clarified your position.
I`m all for a good debate, but you need to understand that against which you are arguing.
Whether you choose to believe it or not, life in the military does not exist as life in the civilian world. There are, of course, many similarities, but much of what flows and ebbs in non-military life simply does not in the military and vice-versa. That particular concept is what I think you cannot or will not grasp.
Jennifer
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Posted By: Waggy
Date Posted: Dec 30, 2001 at 3:35pm
Aaah Jennifer - still at it, are we!!
I am familiar with life in the military so no need to "fill me in".
You are correct that I said you were ill informed (yes, I know, your hyphens are better than my hyphens) and that was in regard to your statements about what I need to do or do/do not know.
The fact is that every countries military is different.
The fact is that in many countries hair can be any length for men and women and in many countries women are not permitted in combat situations (I don`t agree with that either).
The fact is that many people in the military serve their time without EVER being in any situation that involves combat (contact type) except for training.
The fact is that in some of the countries that allow hair of all lengths for men and women it does NOT create a problem that is deemed in any way insurmountable and some of those countries ARE involved in combat situations quite regularly.
I`ll give this much: some of my earlier words were harsh.
Read what I was responding to and perhaps you will see why I didn`t bother to respond more "nicely" to some statements telling me to "read a map, watch the news, yada yada and what all I NEED to do". Also not very "nice", wouldn`t you agree?
Next...wags ! ) Q`cd`d ,,$0b /4 bp +.,,%!%!
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Posted By: dianefromcanada
Date Posted: Dec 30, 2001 at 4:05pm
Well Waggy sorry that I missed the capital J for jewish. I guess I was typing to fast.
My point was and still is that if long hair in the Isreal army is allowed why isn`t the men wearing long hair? YOu claimed that they do have the choice to wear long hair in the army and maybe there is a tiny amount of men that do. ( 20?) But the leaders of the army etc all seem to have short hair. So in fact that proves to me right there that short hair in the army including the Isreal army all sees the need for short hair. Don`t you find that interesting how they can choose yet they prefer short hair? Maybe the rule isn`t so silly....
If long hair didn`t interfere with the operation of their duties we would see a lot more Isreal men in the army with long hair. The army by their pictures and the news have proven to me that they prefer short hair by far for the obvious reasons.
It would certainly would be interesting to see how many men and women in the USA, England, Canada etc would allow their hair to stay long if they had a choice or would decide that it prevents their performance. Look at our policewomen they prefer to cut their hair and yet they can have long hair if they wish.
For me I hold the memories of many in my heart. I respect the army, every year I honour the men that fought the first war etc. I go to church on that day etc. I have complete respect for anyone that chooses that path in life. It takes a lot of courage and strength to come forward and serve the country. I just wish you would appreciate those men and especially women who have been in combat and are in the history books. YOu certainly had no respect for the people I know that were and are in the army. You said so.
It is not a great career choice. It is more a choice of the heart to serve and protect the people of the country. Their lives are often affected when they leave the army. Lets us not knock down the real meaning of the whole process. I gathered that you resent that whole army attitude by your chosen words. Maybe you were child that was sick and tired of moving to country to country and never feeling that you had a home or can make friend long. It is a hard life and people in the army that stay in the army have the biggest heart in the world because they are willing to give.
It is also sad that you never understood Canadian`s culture. The USA is a beautiful place to live and Canada is not the same when it concerns culture etc. Another subject. As many Canadian thinks of their nationality first then they are Canadians.
May you a great New Years Waggy.
$!!, B`gla`d`d
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Posted By: dianefromcanada
Date Posted: Dec 30, 2001 at 5:16pm
Jennifer - you first - credentials please. Is that the game??? And shouldn`t you be asking which country??? But actually, what IS the point of that question anyway since we are only talking about where, to our knowledge it is OK for people to keep any length of hair and within what guidelines.
Actually Waggy I wish you wouldn`t be so defensive about it and answer the question because firstly you said that you wish that we would ask you questions. Secondly if you were in the army for six months, a year or whatever you could easily tell us what your experience has been like with hair in the woods, in the situations.
Thirdly still trying to figure out if you are a woman or a man? Yes it would matter to the whole discussion. It was your advantage to answer her question and educate her and me etc. You have made that point many times about educating. There you go. All speeds ahead. What is your experience with long hair in combat situations? I on the other hand do have some fun experience of being in the woods having fun combat and my hair was caught. That experience made me really think when I had to wipe off the paint off me......$!!, B`gla`d`d
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Posted By: Waggy
Date Posted: Dec 30, 2001 at 5:32pm
OK Diane - wagging along here.
I am female - 50 years old. I have a lot of experience with hair in the woods but not from the military. Moved a lot a child but parent were NOT in the military. Was married to one man who was actively in the military and am currently and forever married to a man who was an officer in the military, changed his mind and had a career with the federal government. Friend and athletic partner who was actively in the Navy - joined when it was mandatory to cut hair, found it a royal pain and grew hers out to waist length and kept it there while still in the Navy as a career. At this point the Navy no longer required women to cut upon recruitment.
Cousins in Israel - all the girl have served their two years, one is currently visiting (and therefore available for much questioning), she had her curly waist length hair the whole time she served and promptly cut it into a crop when she got out (go figure)!! Male cousin is career in the military there, had long hair to begin then cut, don`t know what`s up now.
Diane - I obviously didn`t make my point correctly or you didn`t understand my point or a combination of the two - because what you said two above was exactly my point - the rule is NOT necessary because people will choose whichever they find more appropriate anyway. I`m not objecting to the choice of short hair, I`m saying I don`t think the rule is necessary.
I also must say that in looking back I DO APOLOGIZE for my snarky comment regarding "who cares, etc." - I said it, but I didn`t mean it, and I am sorry.
I do think you owe me one too though for some of your original tone which made it sound like you thought I was an idiot (now you may indeed have thought that, but it wasn`t nice to point it out)...waggers ! ) Q`cd`d ,,$0b /4 bp +.,,%!%!
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Posted By: dianefromcanada
Date Posted: Jan 1, 2002 at 12:40pm
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Reply to message: viewthread.asp?forum=AMB%5FAP804060353&id=3154&page=2#21.3286.2 - 21.3286.2 I never thought you were an idiot Waggy. I think that verbal communication is still the best in life when people can hear and see the other person`s facial expressions. Computer communication will never come close to it.
Lots of hugs, sincerely
It would be such a plesure on another thread or privately to know how you took care of your long hair when you had it and how long was it etc. $!!, B`gla`d`d
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Posted By: Waggy
Date Posted: Jan 1, 2002 at 4:12pm
Back atcha!! Hey we have emoticons, yay.
I`ll try the Bm private message thing - Happy New Year...gabi ! ) Q`cd`d ,,$0b /4 bp +.,,%!%!
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Posted By: Tammy
Date Posted: Jan 2, 2002 at 2:18am
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wow, goodness gracious, all this over hair? =)
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Posted By: Waggy
Date Posted: Jan 2, 2002 at 2:41am
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Well Geez TAMMY - we gotta spice it up a little, eh?? ...gabi :=) ! ) Q`cd`d ,,$0b /4 bp +.,,%!%!
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Posted By: thecrazyengineer
Date Posted: Jan 4, 2002 at 10:41pm
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I was in the service for awhile. The Navy does not require their female recruits to cut their hair. You just have to keep your hair above and off your collar. It cannot interfere with your cover. Your combo cover is supposed to sit to 1 inch above your ear. Your ball cap is just like any baseball cap. When you wear a male combo cover (for drilling, if you do that) your hair must be entirely inside the cover. I went to a service academy, so the rules for hair might have been a bit different, but they are probably simliar.
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Posted By: duke
Date Posted: Jan 16, 2002 at 12:07pm
Posted By: RedJen
Date Posted: Jan 22, 2002 at 12:56am
When I was in the military with very long hair, I could secure it in less time than it takes most men to shave (which is requred in the US military.) Potatoes, your sister can learn to put her long hair up very quickly if she wants to keep it badly enough. (Is she in already? What did she decide to do?)
For the record, I would have joined anyway even if I had had to cut my hair. I did not have to, so why should I? Long hair actually ended up being a lot easier to deal with than my friends` hair. They always had to go to the beauty salon to keep it within regs (just like guys have to go to the barber every two weeks or so.) Me, I could just braid, tuck, and go. Even in deployments under less than ideal conditions.0 -$ ac `ddb ! (4 r ,, b` ," , - %$
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