strawberry blonde to ash blonde: toner or color?

Hello,

I have been reading all over the internet trying to understand color, and I need a little help still please. Last weekend I tried a Loreal Blondissimes box to get an ultralight ash blonde but it turned out more orangey-strawberry blonde, I would say around level 9. Now that it's faded a bit it doesn't look horrible, I just think an ashy tone will work better for me. I understand that I need a blue, maybe a blue-violet to get the orange out, but should I use a toner (with 10 developer) or an light blonde ash (like 8A or 9A) with 20 developer? I keep on reading that color won't lift color, so what would really be the difference between the two developers? And since the box didn't really seem to deposit all that much ash color (otherwise I wouldn't have all this orange, right?), doesn't that imply that a stronger developer, say 30, with a light ash blonde, might actually lighten it still?? LIke all boxes, I have no idea what developer level is in it, but I'm assuming it was something around 20.    From now on I'll definitely be mixing my own color and developer so I know what I'm getting, but what should I do this time?

Thanks for any advice!
Romy

 I haven't used Blondissimes but on 01 Highlift Extra light ash blond excellence the bottle says  HE 116 30V so 30 Volume.  If I wanted 4 levels of lift I would have used 40 Volume from a beauty supply or just buy it all there.  The Blondeissimes (I think has bleach in it)

http://www.walgreens.com/beauty/product.jsp?CATID=100661&navAction=jump&navCount=0&id=prod8818#ingredient

THis may give clues that it was also 30VOL

What level was your hair when you started?
It lifted a tiny bit but didn't deposit enough "tone" since the hair wasn't lightened enough to get to the level you wish to be at it just added...

I Have tried excellence cremelights gentle lightener & 30V that it comes with and it too doesn't lift my natural strawberry blonde up enough to then get the tone that I desire.  The lightest I got with 40V & hair color was from 12.1 ION or 1210 Wella Color Charm but I wasn't pleased with the swatches.  QuickBlue Bleach is pretty good but when air hits it gets poofy & mixing it makes it stay creamy.  ION brilliance lightener seems to stay creamy longer without turning to some odd marshmellow looking texture lol.
A gentle color lifter or lightener may work to bring you up to an desired level but only if you are comfy or wish to go to a pro.  Born Blonde lighteners work good as do Compliments lightener.  I didn't care for Kaleidocolors as it requires heat.  I am not so sure it is a good idea to try another 40 volume level of color on your hair because the ammonia content in the color itself too.  If you wish for an idea of ashy you could try Schwarzkopf shampoo to see what  a "toner" may do without lightening. ON prelightened hair it looks gorgeous platinum! Your regrowth up to the last color could be 40VOL or 30 & a stronger ash color yet if you overlap you may damage further.  If you have strands you could test on maybe try a gentle lightener.  Or even see what color adds to color. 

It is really hard to tell without seeing! or feeling... was your hair colored before? A semi or demi with low vol developer may make it appear the different tone but may also make it look darker...


http://talk.hairboutique.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=40328

Alot of tips/ reading there...
http://www.clairolpro.com/education/color_theory/contributing_pigment

Thanks for the help! My hair history is a bit complicated. My natural color is somewhere around 5 or 6, a light brown/dark blonde. For the last 5 or 6 years I have been blonde, around a level 7 or 8 I guess, first professionally but for the last year or so I have just been using a box, on my whole head (every 3 months), with loreal 9 1/2 lightest ash blonde:

http://www.drugstore.com:80/products/prod.asp?pid=178665&catid=32197&cmbProdBrandFilter=2462

and also the Dream Blonde 9A. Both were great. I didn't lift all the way to a 9, but it lifted enough to make a pretty ashy blonde that I liked. So, I thought to go even lighter, I'll stick with the Loreal line and go up one more step, to ultra light ash blonde. It lifted more but is way more orange than it should be, so now I am basically a light strawberry blonde. I don't feel like I should lighten more (maybe next time), for now I just want to cancel out the orange to make it more ash/beige. If it gets a little darker in the process, that's ok, but I'd just prefer to add ash color and stay the same lightness. I took some pics but it's not letting me upload them.

Anyway, I'm going to sallys today, I think I'm going to get clairol pro cream 9aa, which is a light ash blonde with a violet and blue base. I'll either use a 10 or 20 develop just to be safe, and I think this should just tone down the orange and possibly make it a little darker, which is fine. What do you think? If you think 20 might be too harsh this soon, let me know.

Also, if I wait another 3 months to color my hair, do you think it would be safe to use the 40 with a high lift blonde on my whole head? Or just stick to the roots?   I've been doing the box thing on my whole head every 3 months for a while now and it doesn't seem to be doing any damage.

Thanks again for your help!

romy

Let me know how it goes  Do a test too! You know I really liked the 10A pure lightening no brassy... 9AA goes a bit yellowy... Still beautiful but note fades to brass after months!

Hope you didn't pull through each time... just Did the roots.  With low volumes you get more pigment deposit sometimes.

Hm, what do you mean "didn't pull through each time"? When I've been applying the box, I start applying on the roots, but then immediately apply on the rest of my hair, all the way to the ends. Then I let it all process for like 30-45 minutes.   I've been doing this every time, and did it this time last time as well. Is that bad? My hair always looks pretty even, color and lightness wise. And when I get my hair cut she usually comments that it looks heathly (I also do a kerastase hair mask with a heated towel every week at home, since I'm lightening it and all).

I used 9AA on a Swatch I had done with T28 & it removed the brassy suprisingly... using vol20 dedicated dev with it. I would think that a demi would be better for the hair however.

When you go for a touch up you go to get the roots done with permanent color & the lengths (already colored hair ) with Demi or Semi . Supposedly however letting the color sit in the bowl & process & later adding shampoo & doing the rest of the hair @ the shampoo bowl refreshens the ends or that is the way they did it back in the DAY... May be still done but IDK. Now usually 40x2 & HL wouldn't be pulled through to the ends each time. It is only done on the regrowth roots.  or a virgin (non colored) whole head.
borne.blonde2009-06-20 17:19:19

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3QIxhZslm0&feature=channel

Here is Beth Minardi discussing level 8 & level 12 lift=Similar on not much lift of the 12 ~ Why people wishing to be lighter when they have a lower level of natural hair color...

Thanks for the video link and for all your help!  The video was interesting, I think I understand the whole coloring process and my options a little more now.  Anyway, I ended up going with the clairol pro premium creme light ash blonde 9AA with 10 developer for 45 minutes.  I chose the 10 developer hoping that it would minimize damage to my hair, since I wasn't going to be able to lift anymore anyway.  I'm pretty happy with the results. It definitely cut down on the orange/red alot, and while I wouldn't call it ash, it's definitely closer to what I wanted in the first place (and no longer orangey or reddish).  My ends are a bit dry, but I don't think they're too damaged, and the majority of my hair is definitely still healthy.  One good trim will definitely correct ithat.  For upkeep I think I'm going to use Shimmer lights every week or so. 

I did do several test strands, and was pretty disappointed with the wella toners (I tried T14 and T10).  The T10 did nothing, and the T14 turned my strand a very uneven hue of blue.  Plus, it said to use 20 volume developer?  I thought toners always used 10.  Anyway, I'm happy with my hair now but next time I might just go to a pro, but we'll see!  :)  If I feel brave and cheap again, I'll do the same color with 40 volume developer only on my roots, and so the same color with 10 developer for just like 10 minutes on the rest of my hair.  You suggested to do a demi on the rest of my hair, is there another developer even less than the 10 that is even less damaging and is more of a semi?

Thanks again for all of your help!  I think the results would have been alot scarier without it :)

romy

There are products like Born BLonde no peroxide semi-permanent toner like silent snow 351.  Radiance and Wella Demi and Color Charms have lower volume developer, Clairol Complements Demi, Ion Brilliance semi, etc. I think Natural Instincts, Natural Match, Second Nature ... http://www.clairolpro.com/products/demi_permanent/

These don't lighten hair & deposit tone. The lower the developer the more pigment you may be depositing if it has been designed to do that. When no developer is used... Then you get to where you are staining the cuticle & cortex but not penetrating.

If hair is a dark color then it will be lightened a bit depending on the ammonia & developer, warmth will always happen(sorta) & then you decide if wish to enhance or "cover" it hehe...

Permanent Color on top of color over the years 2 years or more length..well the damage will occur so that is why instead the roots may be done with the proper permanent & the lengths with a wash or demi semi to refresh & shampoo to keep the warmth at bay...

Damage won't necessarily reverse it can be managed.

http://talk.hairboutique.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=64575

We started making a list of pro colors often have demi-semi

Reading about the advantages Etc over the years many opinions can get extremely confusing.